Revelation 14 Con't

And I said, go out there and raise it up. Maybe she'll find it, because you could tell they were looking.

We've got cats that roam. Yeah, they're looking for something. And they knew it was going to be, this is like 5 o 'clock.

And I feed the cats at work. I just put out the food every morning when I get out of my car. But, I know they're hungry, you know, but I'm not at work, so I think

I'm just going to go down there and feed them anyway. If they come out. If they come out. Well, because we all park there, they all come out and get up underneath the cars.

Right. And they don't know, you know, to honk the horn before they leave.

But hopefully, after a 12 -hour shift, your car is cold. Yeah, they move on.

It's that time. It is. It's time to seal it up. Yeah, I think they're out there trying to start the water.

If they don't have water, how do they make coffee? Good question. Oh, they probably have a jug.

Oh, all right. Brian, you'll open us up with a word of prayer. Good morning,

Father. We come to you once again, thankful for the ones that could make it here. Father, I hear your word taught, and I just ask that you prick our heart,

Father, to the lesson to be taught here from your word. I just thank you for the men, Mike, Pastor Keith, and Andy, that bring to teach your word.

And the time that they spend, Father, we just ask that you be watch over the ones who are ailing from the weather,

Father, any restrictions they've made from loss of water or power or anything that people can overcome this morning,

Father. And just warm our hearts to each other and to your word for these things,

I pray in Christ Jesus' name, amen. Amen. Revelation 14.

Her little ears tickle me, just like she's got little ears. And then

I looked, and behold, the Lamb was standing on Mount Zion, and with Him were 144 ,000, having

His name and the name of His Father written on their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven, like the sound of many waters, like the sound of a loud thunder.

And the voice which I heard was like the sound of harpists playing in their hearts. And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders, and no one could learn the song except the 144 ,000 who had been purchased from the earth.

These are the ones who have not been defiled with women, for they have kept themselves chaste.

These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These have been purchased from among men as firstfruits to God and to the

Lamb. And no lie was found in their mouth, and they are blameless. And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, having an eternal gospel to preach to those who live on the earth, to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people.

And he said with a loud voice, Fear God, give Him glory, because the hour of His judgment has come.

Worship Him who has made heaven and the earth and the sea and the springs of water. And another angel, a second one, followed saying,

Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, she who has made all the nations drink of the wine of the passions of her immorality.

Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he will also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the

Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image and whoever receives the mark of his name.

Here is perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

And I heard a voice from heaven saying, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the

Lord from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, so they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them.

Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and sitting on the white cloud was one like the Son of Man, having a golden crown, and in his hand was a sharp sickle.

And another angel came out of the temple, crying out with a loud voice to him who sat on the cloud,

Put in your sickle and reap, for the hour to reap has come, because the harvest of the earth is ripe.

Then he who sat on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was reaped.

And another angel came out of the temple, which is in heaven, and he also had a sharp sickle.

Then another angel, the one who has power over fire, came out from the altar, and he called with a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, saying,

Put in your sharp sickle and gather the clusters from the vine of the earth, because her grapes are ripe.

So the angel swung his sickle to the earth, and gathered the clusters from the vine of the earth, and threw them into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

And the winepress was trodden down outside the city, and the blood came up to the winepress, up to the horse's bridle, for a distance of two hundred miles.

So we're in Revelation 14 for those of you that just came in. So last week, we started talking about Babylon, and how...

What is Babylon? Past, present, or future? Yes. Yes.

Yeah. Yes. Historic Babylon went through a destruction.

Remember, we talked about that. Historical Babylon went through a destruction in 689 B .C.

Then the fall of the Babylonian Empire took place in 539 -536.

I'm on the 536 end, depending on where your time frame starts. But does

Babylon carry on? Yes. It does carry on in its idolatry.

Remember that Babylon, it was foundational for what? Idolatry. That is one of the, we would say, the first place of imperialized, per se, idolatry.

Whether you want to say it was with Nimrod, and then it moves on. Because remember, it was Nimrod that built the

Tower of Babel in the plain of Shinar. Where's Shinar? It's in Babylon. Where did

Nebuchadnezzar build his giant 90 -foot golden pole? Babylon, the plain of Shinar.

Yes. Correct. So, we would say that Babylon is the place of idolatry, and will always be looked at as the place of idolatry.

And we understood, or at least I've made my point, how

I understand it. Hey, the reason why I keep saying how I understand it, I don't want anybody to think that they have to understand it the way that I understand it.

I want you to be, say, I at least want you to understand how I get to where I get to. You can say,

Mike, I don't agree with you, but at least you can be able to say, hey, I know how you got from point A to point B. These are issues that we can disagree on and still be friends and show charity.

Unlike if we disagree on justification by faith alone, we have huge problems.

We can disagree on Babylon. But, if anybody went home and read chapters 17 and 18 of Revelation, you would probably have a good indication of how

I come to my conclusion. Those that think it's Rome, was

Rome ever in covenant with God? No. Therefore, how can she commit adultery?

Impossible. Okay? So, who in the Old Testament was always looked as the unfaithful wife?

Israel. Yeah, whether it be the Northern Kingdom, then Judah. Even after they came back into the land after the exile, after 70 years, what did they immediately start going back into after Zerubbabel laid the foundation?

They immediately went right back into doing the same shenanigans that they had done time and time again for a thousand years.

So, they were always being unfaithful and infidelity.

If you continue to read on through Jeremiah and into Ezekiel, you're going to consistently see the pattern of whoredom.

The consistent pattern of whoredom. And, as we get to chapter 17 and 18, because we'll spend a good bit of time in there being two chapters, we're going to go back to Ezekiel chapter 16.

And, the prophet uses some language in Ezekiel 16 that most parents would not want their children to hear.

The way that he talks about the unfaithful bride. It's very graphic on what he thinks about them and what should happen to the unfaithful bride.

What happens to adulteresses? We said, they stone or burn them. Yeah, stone or burn them.

And, what happens to Babylon in 17 and 18, because of their infractions against God for making immorality with the nations around them, it says that the beast chews them up and burns her.

What happens to Jerusalem? Chews up by the beast, eats them, meaning

Rome. And, what do they do to the rest of the city? They burn it. Now, for those of you who know anything in history, what happened after 70

AD, there was a Hadrian comes along and lets the Jews come back in 132

AD. He lets them come back. They try to set up another

Jewish state. They then revolt against the Barbar Carba revolt. And, Hadrian says he wouldn't have it.

He basically wipes out the Israelites again, Jerusalem again. He salts the city.

And, the city is not built upon for hundreds of years after that. So, just to let you know, the continual pattern of the

Jewish state, per se, after Christ come was always a revolution against whoever

God had put under their authority, or put over them as an authority. So, verse 8.

So, we got through Babylon the Great. She who has been made all the nations drink of the wine of the passions of her immorality.

And, we'll get more into all the nations being made to drink the wine of her immorality when we get to 17 and 18.

Because, it gives us very explicit details of what that means.

And, I don't want to spend a whole bunch of time in 17 and 18 when we'll get there in a couple of weeks, probably. Or, four weeks.

But, then in verse 9, we make a shift from the fallen of Babylon to this third angel.

And, he says, Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the angel.

That's a run on sentence, isn't it? In the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the lamb.

So, we have already seen, back in chapter 13, this mark or this number.

And, the distinguishing mark is not a stamp of 666 on your forehead.

Or, as Iron Maiden would say, the number of the beast. Tells my how old I am.

Anyway, the band had a song called the number of the beast. It's not about a stamp on your forehead that says

Satan, the beast, or 666. It was a distinguishing mark of idolatry.

If you were to look and see a follower of the lamb, because here's the distinction in this whole chapter.

You've got the followers of the lamb and the followers of the beast. Would there be a clear distinction on who's following who? Should be.

If you're following the lamb, what does it say of those that kept themselves chaste? Meaning, kept themselves from immorality.

Not being stained from the immorality of the world. It was those who followed the lamb.

So, the indication is, those who love the Lord, do what? Obey him. He says, if you love me, you'll keep my commandments.

He also says, why do you say you love me and you don't do what I say? But those that follow the beast can go in a million different directions.

Because there's only two types of ways. There's God's way and every other way.

That's why the road that leads to destruction, there's the way that leads to life. So, that mark of the beast, that determining factor that lets you know that you're worshiping something other than Yahweh or Christ, is going any other direction.

And it can come through syncretism. You know what syncretism is? It can come through syncretism, which is wedding

Christianity with some other type of religion.

That is the major problem in the Old Testament with the

Northern Kingdom, is they became syncretistic. When the kingdom split,

Jeroboam made two golden calves. One up in Samaria, one down in Bethel.

And what did he say? He said the same thing about those golden calves that Aaron did when he put all the gold into the fire when

Moses was up on Mount Sinai. Remember they fashioned the golden calf? They didn't say, worship

Baal. They said, this is the God who brought you out of the land of Egypt.

That's syncretism. They made an image of God and worshipped an image as if it were

Baal, but saying that image of Baal, because that is what Baal was, was a cow, and then worshipped it as if it was

Yahweh. That's syncretism. That's taking two religions, wedding them together, and then worshipping as it is a true and living relationship of worship to God.

So this one that receives the mark on the forehead or on his hand, he will drink of the wine of the wrath of God.

Why will he drink the wine of the wrath of God? Pretty obvious. Because those who worship anything other than Christ are idolaters, and what does

God do with idolatry? He wipes it out. And it says that he will torment them with fire and brimstone in the presence of his holy angels.

Fire is always looked at as, one, an instrument to destroy, but also to purify.

So when it says fire and brimstone, where in the past have we seen fire and brimstone used before? Sodom and Gomorrah.

And that is what's being pointed back to. Anytime you see that, that should make your mind think of what did

God do with brimstone and fire? What did he do to Sodom and Gomorrah?

He wiped them out. He wiped them out, and we're going to see it again. We're going to see this brought up again in 17 and 18.

Also concerning Babylon is the fire and brimstone is implements of God's divine wrath.

Where did it come from, from Sodom and Gomorrah? It came from heaven. It actually says that the

Lord rained down fire and brimstone from the Lord. That's a really good image of, because remember, who was down talking to Abraham before the destruction?

It was Jesus, the pre -incarnate Christ, with the two angels. He takes Abraham off to the side, and he sends the two angels on, and he tells them to go in and, hey, get them ready because I'm going to destroy the city.

Well, then it's basically the pre -incarnate Christ that calls down the fire from heaven on Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities that God lays waste of.

So, here it is. They're tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the

Lamb. Why the holy angels? Does anybody, when you're reading that, anybody go, why would they do that in the presence of the holy angels?

Anybody got any thoughts? Certainly could be that.

Anyone else? As a testimony. Testifying of the judgment of God.

These angels stand in solidarity with God as His judgment on Babylon or whoever these, the beast worshippers.

What did the two angels do when they went into Sodom and Gomorrah? They testified what was going to take place.

Then they brought them out of the city, and then what did they do? They stood outside as a testimony of what

God was going to do to that city. As soon as they got to Zoar, what happened? Or the family got to Zoar minus one, the wife, what did he do?

He laid waste to the city. As a testimony. And in the presence of the

Lamb. So, this is specifically speaking of eternal punishment for those that do not obey

God and do not obey His gospel. Where else have we seen in Scripture where God returns with His holy angels to pour out retribution on those who do not obey the gospel?

Anybody? 2 Thessalonians. If you go to 2 Thessalonians chapter 1,

I'll just begin in verse 5. 2

Thessalonians chapter 1 verse 5. It says, this is the plain indication of God's righteous judgment.

So that you will be considered worthy of the kingdom of God for which indeed you are suffering.

For after all, it is only just for God to repay the affliction for those who afflict you and to give relief to those who are afflicted and to us as well.

But when the Lord Jesus will reveal from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire dealing out retribution to those who do not obey

God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. And these will pay the penalty of eternal destruction away from the presence of the

Lord and from the glory of His power when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day.

That is talking about the second coming of Christ where He will come and make all the wrongs right and He will pour out

His judgment on those who do not obey. The clear indication is that when

Jesus returns, that's it. The fate's sealed. When Jesus returns, that's why we do not believe in a pre -trib rapture or a post -trib type rapture.

We believe the second coming. That's what we believe because the scripture is clear that when Jesus comes the next time, it's to judge the living and the dead, to come with His holy angels and to make everything right and to bring in the recreation and the new heavens and the new earth.

Even when you look at after Jesus gives His Olivet Discourse and then

He goes on and begins to do the parables, if you read those, there's no intermediate state.

There is no millennial reign. There is no rapture before the second coming.

This is Jesus giving His eschatological exposition of how

He will return in power and glory and it happens at the end of the age one time.

And in this case, it's saying here He's going to pour out retribution on those who do not obey the gospel and do not obey the

Lord Jesus Christ and that penalty will be eternal destruction away from the presence of the

Lord and from the glory of His power. Now, when we think of hell, we need to remember that hell is not removal from the presence of God.

Do we all agree on that or disagree? That hell is not the removal of the presence of God.

So when people say, when you die, some theologians, when you die, you're forever separated from God.

That is not an accurate statement. You are separated from all that is good about God.

When someone goes to hell, they are very intimately involved with the justice and righteousness of God because who's pouring out the judgment on the sinner?

It's God. So therefore, you're not separated from God. You're separated from all that's good about God.

All that's benevolent about God. They are in the very presence of God's holy, righteous justice at that point.

To where the believer, where are they? They're in the presence of the Lord in eternal bliss forever and ever, enjoying the benevolent love and benefits of being in the heavenly places with Christ Jesus.

And it says here that when He comes to be glorified on that day with the saints, meaning that is going to be the final day of judgment.

Now, there is, we can go back to Revelation 14. And it says this is done in the presence of the

Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest day and night.

This is eternal punishment. And there has been, I know they're in recent months or so, maybe a month and a half.

There has been some pushback on eternal conscious torment. But that's only new because of Kirk Cameron's statement.

Just to let you know, he just happens to be a very well -known figure. But there has been over,

I would say probably the last 10 years, has been a continual push towards that. And the reason being is because you have played the passages like this, where they say, see it's the smoke of their torment.

And when you get into, we'll have to deal with it again, when we get to 17 and 18, dealing with the destruction of the whore of Babylon.

It says, and basically the memorial of their destruction is seeing the smoke. See, when you see smoke, what has happened?

Let's just be honest. If you see smoke, or has been, I agree.

Normally there's a fire. But once the fuel is consumed, what's left?

Just the smoke. And even when, and the argument even goes back to Sodom and Gomorrah, as we were talking.

And the argument is, when Abraham looked, remember

Abraham looked and he saw the smoke rising as the scripture says it was rising as if a furnace.

What had already taken place to Sodom at that point? It completely destroyed. And it says that that smoke was a reminder and a memorial of God's justice.

And even in Isaiah 34, the same terminology is used about Edom when it's destroyed.

That the smoke of its torment or its destruction rises forever and ever. Well, let's just be honest.

It's apocalyptic imagery. What's the point? The point's not for you to go, oh, we can look over there to the

Dead Sea or to the southwestern side or eastern side of Jerusalem and look down to the

Negev and see smoke still rising today. Is that what it's saying? No, let's just be honest.

The idea is, there's a constant reminder that the wicked have been destroyed and that the idea of smoke is the memorial.

Just as when Abraham looked back, he could see that, hey, Sodom's gone. What was the sure sign that Sodom was gone?

Smoke. Okay, smoke. Here, it says that the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever.

And some of the argument for those who believe in annihilationism, or if you want to use the fancy word, conditional immortality.

See, it's right here. It's saying the same thing. Just as Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed, and the smoke was coming up,

God destroys these individuals, the followers of the beast, or those who did not obey the gospel, however you want to coin that, and it's just the smoke as a reminder that God has destroyed them.

There's a huge problem with, one, dealing with how we understand the justice of God and eternal conscious torment.

I'm just going to, one, these both can't be true at the same time, okay?

So we have to say, what does the scripture say about suffering forever and ever?

If the fire is not quenched, then the worm never dies. And that is six times in the book of Matthew, that's the quotation.

That does come from Isaiah. I don't know if y 'all know that. This is a quotation from Isaiah 50 -something, one of those last latter.

And that's what Jesus actually is quoting. Some people say, oh, well, he was looking at Gehenna, pointing outside.

I don't believe that. Jesus was always pointing back. What was Jesus doing? He was fulfillment of the Old Testament prophets, and he,

I know we talk about John the Baptist being the last Old Testament prophet. Yes and no, he was the last

Old Testament prophet to prophesy the coming of Messiah. But technically speaking, Jesus was the last

Old Covenant prophesier because he does the same thing that all the other

Old Testament prophets did, which was turn back to Yahweh or you're going to be destroyed. But then he is also the embodiment of the new.

So Jesus comes as the totality. And he did say that six times in the book of Matthew, where the worm will never die and the fire is never quenched.

In chapter 22, when he is giving the banquet wedding, he talks about the banquet wedding and how

God has sent out his, I mean, the king sends out these people to come to the wedding, and they refused.

And he says, well, you know what? They don't want to come. Interesting. We'll do that when we do the marriage supper of the

Lamb. What does he say to them? What does he tell his servants to go do? You go and you kill all them and you burn their city.

You burn their city. And then you don't want you to go out into the highways and the byways and compel them to come in.

And those who we burn and kill everybody in the city, they'll go to weeping and gnashing of teeth, where the worm never died and the fire was never quenched.

So, weeping? I don't think we have any argument on what weeping is, do we?

Is it the shedding of a tear? Weeping is crying to the point to where the soul is in such anguish, it's almost uncontrollable, that it's suffering.

Okay? What is gnashing? Keep going.

You said ripping and tearing? Grinding, yes. But it specifically has a reason for why they're grinding their teeth.

It's in anger. And we have an indication of how we understand that is because when...

Remember when Stephen is recounting and giving an exposition of Old Testament history before the

Sanhedrin? Do you remember what happens when he gets to about the end of it? They gnashed their teeth.

They did, and it says they were gnashing their teeth because of anger. So, in eternal conscious torment, this has to do...

Anguish? Certainly. This has a two part of hurt and anger.

I would even say fury. This is where our annihilationist guys would disagree.

Okay? They would disagree that when the gnashing of teeth and all of this is taking place.

But there's a reason why there's weeping and gnashing of teeth. It's because God's eternal flame of torment is being poured out on that person.

Hey, how often do we think of it this way? That when the sinner dies, it ceases to sin.

Have you thought about it? Anybody thought about it? When the sinner dies, it still has a hatred towards God.

That's where this comes from. A fury and hatred towards God. When does that cease?

Never. So then, why does God continue to punish the sinner? Because he's continually an obstinate and rebellion and hatred towards God.

Look, just because a sinner dies doesn't mean that he ceases to sin. He is then confirmed in his hatred towards God.

That is what... When he dies, there's no coming back. Okay? The annihilationist person says that God doesn't continue to punish that person because he is no longer sinning.

And therefore, if he's no longer sinning, God cannot in his nature continue to punish the sinner.

Well, one, there's huge problems with that. One, you have to deal with when does a sin against God cease to be a sin against God?

I've used this analogy before. If...

And because you're sitting close, I'll use you. Let's say

Brian fell asleep while I was teaching right now. And I said,

Brian, wake up. Brian said, I don't care. I'm going back to sleep. And I pick up that camera stand and I thump him on the head with it.

And it kills him. Sorry, brother. That would be a murder.

Right? But what if I did that to Brian and he was a police officer?

Would that increase my punishment by the state?

Of course. Why? Because the dignity in which the office that he holds...

Let's say he was a senator and I did that. I'd be in more trouble.

What if he was the president? I'd be in really big trouble.

You're not God. What if he was God? Okay? Now, that's when you look at the dignity of the office of the person offended is also determined on how the punishment of the crime is.

So, if I was to hit Brian in the head and kill him, the state would say, okay, whatever that is, giving of my life, 20 years, whatever that is.

The state sets the demands on my punishment. Therefore, I paid my penalty to society.

What is the penalty to God for every sin? Everlasting punishment.

So it never ceases. And the argument is, I'm sure many of you have heard this before, how can a sin committed in time and space demand eternal punishment when the sinner dies?

Because he never ceases to be angry in his soul towards God.

Ever. Ever. Look, you and me long for the day as the believer, we long for the day when we die for what?

Here to sin no more. Okay? Here to sin no more. There is no promise to the unbeliever that when he dies, he ceases to sin.

His, look, there is, I'm going to say this carefully, when you lose loved ones and they die in unbelief, there's nothing comforting about that.

But there is something reassuring that when those loved ones are in the presence of God's wrath, that somehow they're crying out to God for mercy.

That's not what happens. Let's even take, it's not like you had a loved one there and he's begging

God, please save me, and God's saying no now. They're not asking that. Even look at, in Luke 16, between Lazarus and the rich man.

Did that rich man ever want to repent in that discourse? What did he say?

He said, can you send someone back? Yeah, yeah. Can you?

Yeah, he knew he was confirmed in his position. He could not go, he could not go back.

Okay? But he said, hey, Father Abraham, could you send someone?

He said, hey, look. No, no, no. Even if someone was to come. Yeah, right. I'm sorry. He says, can I go back? He says no. He says they have the prophets and Moses and all the ones that came before him.

If they won't listen to them, they're not going to listen to somebody that came from the dead. Okay? But what did he want?

He wanted just a drop of water because he was in what? Eternal torment. Conscious torment.

Conscious torment. Now, this gets into,

I don't know if we've got enough time. This also gets into, if annihilationism tries to be accurate, then how, this is my biggest problem, is what does it do about the person and work of Christ?

To me, because I've been hearing these arguments, and to me, people don't stop.

If God can, we have to change even to live eternally as holy people.

God has to do something to our body. But also to be in the presence of God for eternity.

We're all going to have a body for eternity. There is a resurrection, and that is a failure for you to remember.

Look, there's a resurrection of the living and the dead. Everybody stands before God on the Day of Judgment. Everybody's resurrected.

It's not as if those who are unbelievers are somehow not going to be resurrected.

We'll get into that when we get towards the end of the book. There's two resurrections. There's a resurrection to life and a resurrection to death.

Everybody stands before God, and everybody's going to be given a count, sinner and non -sinner. I mean, sinner and believer.

You can say something. At the final day.

Okay, at the final day. Until Lake of Fire, where everybody's thrown in, and their argument, and when

I say their argument, whether it's Fudge, Stott, and I love John Stott. I don't know if you all know, I like John Stott, but he's an annihilation guy, too.

And if you wanted to read one of the guys that wrote a good bit of it, last name's

Fudge, that, too, Kirk Cameron's been reading and all. No reason to read 500 pages.

They make like a 15 or 30 treatise, and that's all you need to know. I mean, everything else in there is a bunch of filler, okay?

And I would disagree. They would say that the soul is in torment until the final day, and then they're thrown into the

Lake of Fire. But there's two problems with dealing with the personal work of Christ that I have an issue with with eternal punishment.

I mean, with annihilationism. If, or since,

Jesus dies in the place of the sinner, okay? Follow me. Jesus dies in the place of the sinner, okay?

We agree? Then if Jesus dies the death that you and I, as the believer, dies, and you hold to annihilationism, that means the human soul is annihilated at some point.

Follow me? Follow me? Then that means Jesus' soul was annihilated in our place.

You agree? If you're going to follow their logic. You now have a separation between Jesus' humanity and his divinity.

I don't care if that was for a nanosecond. Then now you're telling me that Jesus, at some point, ceases to be the

God -man. There's a huge problem. Now you have a hypostatic union issue, okay?

Because when Jesus bore our wrath in our place, he bore the full weight of God's wrath.

And if you're saying annihilationism is the way it goes, that means Jesus was annihilated in his spirit, in his soul, because that's what's consumed in the lake of fire by their own understanding is that the sinner ceases to exist.

So you're telling me that Jesus, at some point, ceased to exist? As he died for the sinner? You have now the hypostatic union issue.

And the other is the justice of God. I would imagine, as hard as it is to say,

I would imagine my two sons in hell today would love to be annihilated.

Okay? That would end it all. Annihilationism is the unbeliever's version of heaven.

That's just correct. It's a reprieve. It's a reprieve. So this attack, and they'll say, well, no, no, no, no, no.

And I heard what both Fudge, Stott, and Kurt Cameron both said that this is an attack on God's character.

This still shows grace in God's character. Okay. Once again, now, the second part that I disagree with it, because it has to deal with the person and the work of Christ, is if they're saying that God extends grace to the sinner, even on Judgment Day, by annihilating him.

That is the exact quote. That's not me coming to good. That's the quote, that God is still merciful to the sinner by annihilating them.

Okay. Then you're going to have to say, too, that when Jesus was on the cross, that God somehow showed him mercy.

Did God show Jesus mercy? No. No, he poured out his white hot, without -mercy wrath.

So, as Kurt Cameron said in Fudge and Stott, even in God's wrath, he remembered mercy.

And that is a quotation back to the Old Testament. I can't remember if it was Nahum. I think it was

Habakkuk. And that's two totally different things. When he says, in your wrath, remember mercy, who's he talking about in the book of Habakkuk?

He's talking about judging the coveted people. That's right. And he's saying, look, because Habakkuk's had this argument with God, or this interaction with God, saying,

God, our people really need to be judged, and I wish you'd hurry up and do it. And God says, ha -ha, you know what, I'm going to, and I'm sending the wicked

Babylonians to do it. And he's like, hold up, God, you can't do that. They're worse than us. God says, no, no, no, no, let me tell you how wicked they are.

And he gives this big long about how they've got big swords and their blades, and they slice people down. And then he says, okay, all right,

I'll sit here with my hand over my mouth to shut up. But in your wrath, would you remember mercy?

And what did he do? He was talking about a remnant. Don't wipe us all out.

Have a remnant so that we can be restored one day. And that is what took place. Go ahead.

It's the same thing that Abraham pleads for with Lot, you know, in your wrath of Sodom and Gomorrah.

He's asking for mercy, but he's asking for it for people who, you know, follow God. Yeah, and that interesting point when you bring that up, because we often forget that the only reason why

Lot and his family got out was not because of Lot. Right. It's because of Abraham. It's because of Abraham.

It's because of Abraham. Well, we've got to go. We'll pick back up in verse 12, and we'll deal with the perseverance of the saints.

And we'll finish up to 13 next week so that we can start the reverse. Mike, you'll pray for us?

Heavenly Father, we thank you for this time of study of your word. We thank you for our brother as he is prepared. And we just pray that we would have a clear understanding and that false teaching would be squelched in our country and our world.

And we thank you for that. We thank you for bringing us here safely today. We pray that you be with those who are dealing with the freeze.

We pray that you would be with any who are traveling in, that you keep them safe, and that you would bless our time of worship and that as the gospel goes forth, that your people would be strengthened and that the lost would be saved.