Dead Men Walking Podcast Christmas Livestream!

There it is, it's the Christmas live stream, let's go! I'm assuming that's bad religion.

You're welcome for that, Greg. Hey, what's up guys?

Welcome to the live stream here with Parker Brown from Watchwell Podcast. Came in studio, what's up brother? How's it going man? Pretty good.

Gotta shout out Cody Fields for the opening song there. He turned me on to some bad religion Christmas album and I've just been playing it non -stop for the last two weeks.

What's going on fellas, how you doing out there? It is ironically so good. Yes sir, yes sir.

You're welcome for that song, man. Yeah, no problem. Listen, we're doing a Christmas special live stream from 7 p .m.

to 9 p .m. We've got people coming and going all two hours, stopping in and we're talking about what might put you on the island of misfit toys.

An opinion that might have gotten you kicked out of Christmas dinner, might have gotten you a lump of coal in your stocking.

It can be theological, it can be political, it can be cultural, but we're just going to chop it up and talk about it.

And right now on the live stream, obviously here with Parker Brown from Watchwell, I have Andrew Rappaport from Striving for Eternity Ministries, Cody Fields from Westminster, is it

Westminster Doxology Effects? No, Westminster, what's the podcast, Cody? Westminster Effects and the

Westminster Effects Doxology Podcast. There we go. I'm the only guitar gear builder in the world with a theology podcast.

I love it. We have Davis Youns, he's a constitutional attorney, worked on some big cases. You've seen him on Fox News, other places.

And then Corey from Civically Minded down there in the corner. And like I said, we'll have people popping in all evening.

So what's up? What's up, guys? Are you guys ready for Christmas? Hear, hear. Yes, sir.

Man, I'm in your neck of the woods. I'm in Michigan. So we travel up to see my wife's family every year for about 10 days.

So everybody else heads south to warmer places, but we head to beautiful Michigan for Christmas.

Oh, man, we should have had Davis in here. We got another chair. Come on down. We got the mugs full, the heat's going, we're ready to go.

But yeah, thanks for being here, guys. Andrew, where are you at right now? Looks like you're in a hotel or house or what is that?

I tried to do a little getaway. I am in New York City. So I'm like one block from Rockefeller Center.

So we've been walking by the tree, taking photos and watching tons of tourists annoy me, even though I'm technically a tourist here, but I'm too much of a

New Yorker to know that they just annoy me even though I've left. Right.

How about you, Corey? Where are you coming in from? Just outside Charlotte. I'm at home.

We are traveling over to Greensboro. My wife has a sister in Greensboro, so we'll go

Christmas morning over to Greensboro. But tomorrow, we'll go down to my family's house, which is about 40 minutes from here, just on the other side of Charlotte.

We're on the north side. My mom lives on the east side. And so, yeah, well, it is temperate.

I'm from Indiana originally, so this isn't cold. What is it down there?

What's the what's the temperature? It was in the low 40s today, but I mean, I was used to it.

It's it's 19 right now here. And I did post a picture and Parker responded to it.

I went to I went to Bryant Park and they had a fountain that was freezing over.

It was actually a cool picture. Huh? It's a cool picture. It was a cool picture. Yeah, my wife wanted and I just asked the question of since I'm traveling and I can't get into my cold plunge,

I was I was taking a poll to see who who thought I should just strip off some layers and dive in and just watch everyone's face.

And I just sit and enjoy like, you know, cold water. Andrew Rappaport at it again.

Yeah. All right. So we know what you're going to get canceled for this year, running around half naked in a cold plunge in front of the public.

I heard that in New York City. Oh, that's true. I thought that was the Andrew Rappaport version of Florida man.

Yeah. Yeah. The Florida man. We just Google a date and then Florida man. Right.

And then something comes up and something crazy they're doing. I think Davis has represented half of Florida. Maybe I think. I don't know.

All right. So let's get started here. Who's got something that, you know,

Andrew, I know you're you're in trouble. Well, here's the reason why I asked you all on here, too, because you're kind of troublemakers in your own sense, meaning you speak your mind, you speak the truth no matter what others are going to think about you or say.

So I just wanted to wanted you guys to look back on the year and maybe we talk about some things that need either need to be discussed or things that need to be said that most people either don't want to talk about or ignore or get really upset for no reason, just because the truth sometimes upset.

So have any takers on who's got a subject for me first? I'll go first,

Greg. All right. Let's go, Davis. All right. So I to kind of to the fit together.

I was asked if I was if I was nominated for attorney general as an attorney, if I was nominated for attorney general of the

United States, what would be my priority? What would be the first thing I would do as head of the

Department of Justice? And my answer is pretty simple. I would just abolish the Department of Justice. That would be what

I would want to do is end it. So that's a that's a controversial opinion to some in some circles.

And normally I get, isn't it in the Constitution? And haven't we always had it? So those are the two questions that I get.

So that's wait a minute. OK, so so explain that a little bit. So if you were to abolish the Department of Justice, what would we lose there?

What does the Department of Justice even do for those who might not know? Yeah. So, well, one part of the

Department of Justice is the FBI, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, which is actually a relatively new invention.

It's completely not necessary. It is duplicative of law enforcement in every state. And with modern technology and everything else in interstate compacts, there's absolutely no reason to have a separate independent federal law enforcement agency.

So that's the big thing. The Department of Justice does is run the FBI and then runs the prosecutions that happen from the

FBI. So if you eliminate the FBI, there's no need to have the Department of Justice to prosecute federal crimes.

Not necessary. And then you flip to what else does Department of Justice do? Typically, when you look at it, it acts in some respects, although not totally, as like a law firm for the federal government.

So they get involved in litigation on behalf of the federal government. And much of it is unnecessary.

It's duplicative of other agencies or it's counter to the Constitution, to the interests of the

American people or to the interests of states. So if you have states suing the federal government or disputes between the states and the federal government, the

Department of Justice is intervening. So that's a very simple way to look at it, but absolutely not necessary, nor does it fit with the original concepts that our founders had as far as a federal system.

Well, and Davis, you know, a lot of folks don't even know that, you know, unfortunately, thanks to George W.

Bush, the FBI actually changed its mission. It used to be law enforcement, which means as law enforcement, they can investigate things, but there's a time limit.

Once investigation is done, they have to close files. Under, you know, basically what happened after 9 -11 is

George W. Bush made a change with the FBI and they're now an investigation agency and therefore they do not have to close files.

They can, you know, decide, Greg Moore, we want to check you out and they can leave a file open forever and just keep adding to it and adding to it.

That makes a radical difference in the FBI and its function. So it's one thing that I'm hoping,

I agree with you, Davis, at a minimum, we need to restructure it and make it back at a minimum to a law enforcement agency.

Yeah. I would just say I'm a white, straight male who believes in the second amendment constitution and I'm a Christian.

So I'm on some pair of watch lists already guys. So no worries there. I know because I put you on that list when

I worked for the government. Corey, were you going to say something or was that Cody?

That was, that was me. The Cody with the D, even though I've been called Corey, I don't know how many times in my life.

Davis, I'm intrigued by this. How then would the federal government prosecute federal crimes then?

Or does that just go away as well? It goes away and mostly it's unnecessary and repetitive.

So a lot of the criminal justification for the

FBI is think like Bonnie and Clyde, right? And again, this is a way, an oversimplification, but it was this idea that bank robbers, they would rob a bank and then they would cross state lines and they would just avoid prosecution because they would get out of the jurisdiction.

Today we have interstate compacts. So states can make agreements with each other and say, Hey, if somebody commits a crime in Indiana and they're found in Michigan, Michigan can extradite them back to Indiana.

So especially with modern technology and everything else, the FBI is not there. The only other thing the

FBI, when you think about it, when you talk about United States soil is okay, who's going to prosecute crimes on a federal land.

So a crime occurs on federal land. Well, guess what? Unless we're talking about a U S territory, that's also within a state.

So if the federal land is Yellowstone and it's within the state of Wyoming, guess what you can have.

And many, a lot of federal land, a lot of military installations have concurrent jurisdiction with the state.

So the state could prosecute crimes that occur. And so again, the FBI, the federal criminal investigation for the most part, there's a few limits to this that get complicated, but generally speaking, it's duplicative and not necessary because the states could do it.

Interesting. So let's see. It's kind of similar to, uh, what's the guy's name who just shot the

United healthcare CEO, Luigi, is it Mangione? Yeah. Where, where you, you have a little bit of a, of a turf war going on between New York and the feds, right.

Of who wants to try. It's not just there, Cody right now, there's a turf war going on in Florida where Florida is trying to, to investigate the assassination attempt on, on Donald Trump's life and blocking things because they're the federal government.

And so they're, you know, they're not allowing for an investigation. I'll tell you a fun relationship, uh, that just happened recently with me at the

County level with both state and federal agencies. Um, we were a bellwether

County for a lawsuit against a major pharmaceutical company, uh, and essentially sued them.

We had national attorneys represent our County and, uh, about 15 other counties jumped in between three

States in the Midwest, about halfway through when they saw that it was going very well for us. Um, in the ninth hour, about a month before rendering judgment, the state attorney in Michigan jumped in and said,

Hey, we want to be part of this. And the federal, uh, justice system jumped in and said, yeah, we should be part of this too.

And by the way, we get 50 % of your winnings. And the state said, well, we get 50 % of that 50%.

And essentially we won a $72 million lawsuit that would have went to 16 counties, but instead that was reduced to about $18 million because a month before, uh, we won the case as a bellwether

County, the feds came in and the state came in and said, yeah, we want a little case. We want to wet our beak. So no help, uh, in, in the court systems, no help with the laws just at the very last hour said, yeah, we'll take 50, 60 million and divvy it up between ourselves.

So that's duplicity of levels of government for you. And that, and that's a struggle anyway, I don't get into revenue sharing there, but that's a struggle anyway between a local state and federal.

Um, but I think I understand what Davis is saying too, is that, that, uh, like dual, you know what I mean? They're, they're both doing the same thing states can do.

That's how the country was supposedly found. Every state is its own little country, right? And there's very limited things that the federal government should be doing, uh, outside of protecting borders and things like that.

Anything interstate now can be done with compacts. Like Davis was saying, that's a good one, but you'll get a lot of people that will look at you crazy

Davis. If you say I want to eliminate the department of justice, like, Oh, you're an anarchist.

So Davis, I want to go further and say, you know, because department of justice, all these things are put under the

Homeland security, which doesn't actually protect our Homeland because a lot of folks don't know what they're actually doing is investigating

American citizens. That's not an issue, right? And they're actually 14th amendment.

They're not supposed to be able to do things like that. But so I think you're not going far enough,

Davis, let's go. Andrew, you mentioned the, uh, the Bush years.

I mean, the Patriot act had such wide sweeping, you know, such broad powers that were given to it, you know, all in the name of, well, we're doing this to keep you safe.

And for the average, you know, sheeple out there, it's, well, if you say it's to keep me safe, then, you know, by golly,

I'll just kick all of my curb. We saw that again in COVID of course, but I'm talking about getting canceled.

Let's get us, let's get the whole thing kicked off tonight. Talk about COVID and vaccines and all that garbage.

They'll just de -platform the whole thing. That's okay. I'm not making any money off this one.

Go ahead and de -platform it. John, what's going on? John Root just joined us. How are you, sir? What's up guys?

Merry Christmas. How are you guys? Pretty good. Um, take that mic up just about, I don't know, 10, 15%, if you can, if not talk close to the mic so we can hear you.

Uh, so yeah, so we're just talking about things that, oh, Dale Partridge is back on. Dale, how are you, sir? Maybe you can't hear me.

I don't know. But if you can't hear me, Dale, we are talking about, Dale is trying to speak.

Dale, your mic's, we're not hearing you. Okay. Yeah. We're not hearing Dale, but John and Dale just jumped on.

Uh, guys, I'll bring you up to speed. We are talking about things, opinions, whether theologically, culturally, politically, that have put you on the island of misfit toys, uh, with your friends, family, loved ones, coworkers.

Uh, Davis just went first. He brought up, if he were the attorney general, he would abolish the justice department, department of justice.

And we were just talking about that for the last 10 or 15 minutes. Any newcomers or anyone else, uh, got something they want to throw out there to discuss?

All's I'm going to say is I have an extended family member who works for the department of justice. And I can't wait to run this by her tomorrow with Christmas happenings.

Oh, you're you're that guy, huh? Cody. Oh, yeah, absolutely. We know who's getting canceled for Christmas.

Right. You guys hear me now? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. There we go. Sweet. Cool.

Now I've got one familial Lee and I've got one ecumenically. So, so I'll give you both familial

Lee. I am the only Presbyterian in a staunchly Baptist family. Um, you know, like data, what's holding you back,

Dale? No, no. This is, this is Corey and Andrew, you know this.

Um, so, so I'm the only Presbyterian. So my, my parents, um, my dad before he passed and my mom have not seen any of their grandkids baptized.

Um, they, they would not come just on principle and, um, and, and yeah, and I'm the only post mill guy.

So, so that, that kind of keeps me at odds with most of my family ecumenically

I'm seeking ordination in the PCA. Um, and I've got a lot of friends in Moscow.

So, you know, as, as, as a PCA guy with, with friends in Moscow, that, that keeps me somewhat in the doghouse, uh, ecumenically.

No, you got people throwing darts at you from all, all sides. Yeah. Well, I'm a big,

I'm a, I'm a, I'm a pretty good sized target. So some of them at some point will hit me. No, I love you,

Corey. No wonder the beer mug's so big. Yeah. I was gonna say, if you stop drinking all that beer, you might not be as big of a target, just saying.

Yeah, that'll get you. Uh, you know, I come from a non -denominational, uh, charismatic leaning, uh, outer family.

So to, for them, I tell people, uh, for eight or nine years, I was a closeted Calvinist, meaning

I understood the doctrines of grace. I believed it, but I was still, I was brought up like those guys are weird.

They're not even really believers. So I didn't even really talk about it or tell anyone about it. And it was really weird when you're trying to explain things to your parents who brought you up in the faith and going, yeah, but I think we disagree on some, some core, uh, theological and doctrinal things.

So I definitely get the Presbyterian and Baptist thing, uh, which honestly,

I didn't even know, you know, I was, Davis is back. I was, uh, in my late twenties before I really, truly understood the differences in denominations.

I just kind of thought everyone was non -denominational Baptist like, you know, Dale, what do you got for us?

Now you got some, I have to say about once a week with Dale Partridge, he did it.

He did an episode with us about head coverings. I don't know. It has to be now a year and a half ago when his book came out, maybe two years ago, even in once a week,

I get a comment or a text. Cause you can text us on our show where people have gone back, listen to that.

And they're asking me questions and I go, Hey man, you gotta go. You gotta go talk to Dale. It's his book, but it's still that popular both on YouTube and on our audio, probably one of our best performing ones.

Um, so I know right off, that's one of the reasons I wanted Dale to come on because he, you know, he's not afraid to talk about things people don't want to talk about.

Um, but Dale, you got anything that's put you on the Island of misfit toys? Hey, Claude's on what's going on.

Oh my gosh. Claude brought a gun. If I would have known

I would have brought mine already brandishing weapons for Dale Partridge.

He's like one guy's drinking beer. The other guy has guns. What kind of live stream did I get myself? I would have shown my guns except I'm in New York city and they're not

Andrew, you're wearing short sleeves. Your guns are already showing brother. Yeah.

So I guess going back on your question there, I mean, yeah, you know, for us we've done 200 episodes of real

Christianity over the last several years, maybe more. And, uh, the head coverings episode is still number one.

It was from like year one, five, six years ago or something crazy. And so it becomes this,

I think there's a massive resurgence around head coverings. And, uh, you know, I think that it's probably coming from just a desire to have more traditionalism.

Uh, not necessarily that they have an exegetical understanding of that particular passage, but, uh, you know, my book, a cover for glory has been selling without marketing, you know, a hundred copies a month just going.

And so it's been really cool. Uh, you know, I never really intended it to be that popular of a book.

Uh, it was really just a biblical defense for it, but certainly it's gonna come up more and more, you know,

I think right now my thing, you guys probably seen this is that, uh, you know, everybody's trying to fight for some sort of traditionalism.

And I think the missing gap right now is high church Protestantism or at least higher church

Protestantism, because, you know, I grew up like you guys, you know, some of you guys, you know, like, uh, Calvary chapel kind of churchy entity, mid zone kind of Southern California Baptist life, non -denom.

And, uh, you know, we we've shifted over, you know, we're, we're applying, we're a year into the application process of the

CREC. And so we have, um, you know, we're kneeling, we're liturgical, we're family or a family integrated.

We're commuting every week. We're hymns, we're singing Psalms. We're, you know, and I think, uh, we're, you know, we're wearing suits.

I actually just made the decision after, you know, maybe a year of debate of starting to wear a collar, a cleric collar.

Um, I'm not wearing one now, but it's one of those things that we're, I think there's a group of, of reformed them that is, is continuing to push a little bit more traditional.

And I think it's good because we're losing people. We're bleeding people into Rome or into EO.

Um, and I think that more people are looking for, uh, kind of a more historic, um, classical reformed world, uh, that, that actually has, you know, the doctrines of grace that actually has, uh, you know, the historic confessions and doesn't have to go into kind of the errors of Rome or EO.

So that's what I'm seeing right now. That's been kind of my, uh, my discussion with most of our church family and, and, uh, you know, and then, yeah,

I'm constantly fighting feminism. That's my, that's my main enemy right now. And for folks who may not pick up EO stands for Eastern Orthodoxy.

Yeah. Yeah. So even on Linedale too, I, and for these guys that are on here, you go back on your feed and it's like crazy feminists just coming after you.

Uh, when the funny thing is, I probably know more women that support coverings than men that are believers in, in, in my sphere.

Yeah. Uh, even a lot of women leading in that, which really interested me a couple of years ago when you were on the podcast.

Cause I went, what's going on to where, uh, if this is a biblical issue, the men should be looking into it.

Yet the women within churches, uh, godly submissive wives that are also wise and want to honor

God are kind of leading the way on this. And I was wondering if that was backwards, but yeah, you get a lot of push.

I mean, that'll, that'll put you on the Island of toys for sure. You get all kinds of pushback on that online. Yeah. You know, and people always accuse me of it being, you know, this crazy massage.

I haven't, I've never even taught about head coverings at my church. We've been planted for over a year. I've never talked about it once.

Um, so it's not, I'm not like this guy that's like, you gotta cover your head, you know, where the women walk in, there's the box of HUD coverings.

That's not, that's not us at all. Um, but, uh, but yeah, that that's my main enemy right now is, is

I am focused heavily. You know, the, the reformed kind of X, you know, battles have been going on.

I, I kind of purposefully checked out of that and, uh, just wanted to say, Hey, let's, let's, let's try to get back to business and fighting the, you know, the gays and the, and, uh, you know, all the, all the other things that the trans, you know, that's what

I was looking for. The quote of the, uh, the live stream, there's nothing they can do because before you jump, before you guys jumped on, uh,

Claude, I'll get to you in a minute. Uh, Davis there said he's going to eliminate the, uh, uh, department of justice.

So that'd be perfect. We wouldn't have the FBI to worry about if we need to fight the case. Oh my goodness.

Hey, it's the happy Calvinist Claude Ramsey. Haven't talked to you in a while, brother, but I'm looking forward to seeing you in February. Same with Andrew as well, too.

Uh, what's going on down there? Just moving along. Yeah.

Andrew, plug your ears. Claude is my favorite Baptist. So Claude, what kind of, his favorite, his favorite all millennialist that optimistic millennialist

Baptist. Yeah. Yeah. For those of you, uh, who haven't ever tuned into, uh,

Claude's podcast, if you're watching on the live stream right now, here I stand theology. Um, Claude is probably one of my favorite preachers as well, too, man.

When he preaches, um, you, you feel, uh, God's word moving. Um, cause I've been fortunate enough to be in a couple of the pews of his sermons, but, um,

Claude, what opinion have you had in the last year that might've thrown you on the

Island of misfit toys? What's something that you stand on here? I stand is the name of your podcast. So where do you stand firm on that gets you in trouble maybe with friends, family, uh, the feminists, the secularist, the leftist, and you go,

I'm not moving away from this point. You got anything for us? It's easy. I can sum it up in two Okay.

Oh, gosh. Hey, wait a minute. I think, uh, aren't my boys going to be seeing you in a bowl here pretty soon?

Hey, um, yeah. Yeah. You might have to do a live stream on that. That would be fun.

That would be fun. And probably I would say something else that maybe, um, puts me on a kind of, uh, a set apart a little bit, stand up, stand up, stand office just a little bit is that I, uh, that I do strive to be, uh, happy in the

Lord, uh, which you don't, you know, it, it, it seems like amongst reform folks anymore, particularly the last year, there's so much infighting.

Um, you know, I, I'm not saying that I'm not saying that we just need to smile and pretend like stuff ain't happening, but I mean, there's times just to be silent like the

Lord, you know, when he stood before Pilate, sometimes there's no need to give an answer. So, so are you trying to say that you're trying to, you know, claim that you're not only the happy Calvinist, but the nice one and not

Keith Foskey, is that what you're saying? I'm saying Keith Foskey by virtue of Hans Feeney is a nice Calvinist.

Yeah. There's something to be said about that, Claude. Uh, I've been noticing, uh, you know, one of my favorite parables is the parable of the debtor.

And it's really, when I wake up every morning, I think I've literally thought about that probably not at probably 99 % of the time, almost every morning.

I think about that and I go, wow, how can I not be grateful to God, uh, from what he's saved me from.

And then I have to pass that type of grace on to other people when I interact with them. And, uh, there's just been not a whole lot of grace going around, uh, even between believers and brothers, you know, that's correct.

That's correct. And, and, and to be honest, I mean, I know this is a live stream. I know it's on X, I know it's on YouTube and yes, we all, you know, we all have platforms there and all that, but I think it's,

I think it would be wise for Christian men, and let me just be blunt here, just to shut up, put their nose in the

Bible, get God in prayer and get away from, uh, worrying about trying to be a famous public figure and just be a believer for a little while.

Claude, I don't like what you say. I'm canceling you. Just yesterday, just yesterday

I put on, um, I put on Twitter, I was actually shocked. I'm sure that somebody else has posted this passage of scripture, but for some reason

I just had not seen it. Um, it's, uh, first Peter three, eight through nine, it says to sum up, all of you be harmonious, sympathetic, brotherly, kindhearted, and humble in spirit, not returning evil for evil or insult for insult, but giving a blessing instead.

I'm actually teaching on, uh, this yesterday I preached on Romans 12, 13, which is, uh, you know, bless and do not curse.

Um, and I had to preach on that particular passage as well. That was kind of my cross reference verse, but it made me really think about everything that was going on.

And I thought, wow, like this is the passage I was preaching about was about our persecutors that are outside of the church.

We're not even doing this that well in the church with one another. And so it was, it was just one of those verses that I thought we need to throw this verse out every day for the next couple of months to kind of cool things off a bit.

And in Ephesians 4, 32, again, everything, everything, everything we're seeing in the New Testament is aimed at the church.

It's aimed at believers. So in Ephesians 4, 32, when Paul reminds them, be kind, kindhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake has forgiven you.

I mean, we've got to have that in our mind. Yeah. People understand the teachings of Paul.

I mean, you look at Paul and in Philippians, what does he say? He's, he says, there's people who are bad mouthing him, slandering him saying falsehoods about him.

What does he say? He's going to rejoice because the gospel going forth. In fact, what he says later in the book is he talks about the fact that these false teachers that he's been warning them about.

Let's see if some of the people on social media are doing this in the discernment ministries. He says he was warning about them with tears.

You don't see that in much of the discernment ministries. I'm dealing with someone right now who is just looking for the next person to go after.

They're, they're like lethal when they find someone, Oh, we can like expose this person.

That's not Paul. Paul had tears in his eyes when he had to call out falsehood. He had a really good idea of what it meant to represent and reflect the body of Christ and what that meant publicly.

You know, I think we would all do well to, to remember that. And just a reminder to everyone, this is going on from seven to nine.

If you guys need to jump off or go do something or can't stay on the whole time, we totally understand. We got people coming and going the whole time, but I just saw

John Root male model extraordinaire, freshly married.

I don't know. And a new baby boys. Did I see that? The announcement of baby boy?

Yeah, baby boy, baby boy coming. I'm sorry that my stream and audio is awful.

I guess my computer decided to pretty much stop working. I might've gotten a little frustrated.

So hopefully I didn't say anything I shouldn't say. If I did, I apologize. No, you're all good. And one of the reasons why

I wanted you to jump on and talk about this is because when I watch your Twitter X stream, it is a perfect mess mix of like standing for righteousness.

But then also there's always something sports related going on since you were connected to DSPN and you're in that world and all that stuff.

And you will literally just say the most hard -lined truthful. This is biblical.

And somehow it gets related to sports. I go, I would have never made that connection, but you make it so perfectly. Has there been anything this year where you've just gotten grief from where you just went said,

Hey, this is where it is here. I stand. This is it. And people went, Oh, you're this, you're that you're a horrible person.

Anything that comes to mind? Honestly, there's so much of that stuff that happens that it's kind of like,

I don't know. I just, I forget it, but something I would love people to understand is for me,

I worked in sports because I mean, originally I worked in sports because it was an outlet away from politics.

It was probably the only outlet that could bring people together better than anything else that our country could provide.

And obviously we saw what happened in 2020. I love talking about sports and I love seeing athletes that proudly proclaim

Christ. So there's people's like CJ Stroud, Brock Purdy, a couple quarterbacks in the

NFL. There's even a running back for Ohio state that scored a touchdown in the first game of the college football playoff.

And he did Jesus loves you in sign language. Like these are the kinds of things that need to be promoted.

Shout out to my boy, Spencer Danielson. He's the head coach of Boise state. I think they're going to get the upset win in the fiesta bowl over Penn state.

That's my hot take. But Spencer and I played football Pacific together. And I mean, he was talking to Mike Krzyzewski the other day and he's got, you know, you know,

Jesus displayed on the background of his video. I mean, there's a lot of really great stuff happening in sports.

There's a lot of nonsense that happens in sports, but hopefully people can realize it's an outlet where Christ is really being proclaimed.

And there's a reason that stuff is going viral online. People love it. They desire it. And I mean,

I hate, I don't want to use the term revival lightly. I feel like that's thrown out, especially in charismatic circles, started to throw them under the bus like way too much.

I think we need to care about, you know, what Jonathan Edwards had to say about revival and that definition of it.

But there seems to be, if I use that term, lack of a better term revival that we see in sports, there's a lot of really great

Christian leaders. And I think people love to see it. Yeah. It's so crazy that you're seeing this resurgence.

My son's 10. He's into football, plays football. So now I have to be really into football and having stats memorized or look them up on the phone.

He's always asking me, right. He knows every player, just like when I was a kid in the eighties growing up, I knew every player in baseball, but he was, he said something that really threw me, he goes, wow, dad, it's so cool.

That, you know, is like most of the NFL Christian because in his, his world, he's a CJ Stroud, Ohio state fan breaks my heart.

I'm a Michigan fan, live in Michigan, but either way I did something wrong there. But in his, in his 10 year old mind, he's thinking you've got two, you know, leading prayer groups and CJ Stroud and all these guys doing these things.

And it's so visible. And there's such a resurgence. Like have any of you guys noticed that too in sports? Like, what do you think that is?

I mean, is that a move of God within sports to where now it's so public people are latching onto it. There's even things of them you know, some players,

I can't remember who it was, but there's players within the teams that are like witnessing to the other players, like,

Hey, maybe not go out to that club tonight. Or when we're on the road, like they're changing the culture of their locker room because of how they're reflecting

Christ, which I think is awesome. I mean, you have any of you guys experienced that or saw that as a sports lover?

Yeah, I have. I've just seen this even in the UFC, even in skateboarding.

I mean, it is, it is certainly some sort of, you know, as John said, some sort of revival at some degree.

You know, my biggest fear is like, is it, is it just empty, you know, churchy entity?

Like, is there substance behind it? Right. Do they actually know like a bad news, good news gospel?

Are those conversations happening behind closed doors? Certainly they are at some degree, you know, but a lot of these people will say something and you go, okay, what do you mean by that?

And also, you know, the tendency in celebrity world is that just because you're a platform, now you should become like the leading theologian to teach everybody about Jesus.

And that's, you know, we saw that dumpster fire of a nightmare happened with the, the, the worship leaders and, you know, the, in Nashville, you know, they realized they had really great music, but their theology wasn't all that good, even though they were incredibly influential in teaching people theology across the country through their songs.

And so, um, I think that there's gotta be some sort of, you know, one,

I want them to see, see more athletes that are actually having theological and biblical literacy and actually communicating some of that, which when you get the one -on -ones,

I know, John, you probably watch these, like these one -on -ones where they're getting interviews and they have more question and time to respond. You do get a little bit of that.

And I've been impressed with some folks. And so, yeah, I'm hoping that it just continues and that maybe there's like a chaplain or some sort of pastor or minister that's like getting in and taking these guys that have huge platforms way deeper.

Yeah. Yeah. People think, uh, Brock, you're probably like referencing Brock Carty is the quarterback for the

San Francisco 49ers in case anybody's tuning in. They're like, who's that guy? Um, he was the last pick in the draft a couple of years ago and he was on the sports spectrum podcast.

And he's talking about how like Jesus is savior and Lord, he is God incarnate.

Uh, and he's using language and theology. That's like, yeah, this is, this is really solid. And there's a clear understanding of, he's not talking about like, oh,

I just thank God. Uh, and that's just kind of like a token little phrase. It's like, people are saying, or I think my

Lord and savior, Jesus Christ, people are explaining what that actually means. And we can say yes and amen, but I'm totally with you.

Yeah. It's, it definitely scares me in these conservative circles, sports circles, uh, anything in general involving celebrities.

Somebody says something that like, oh, cool. They said Jesus, like all of a sudden this should be the person that we like put on the posters.

We platform them and they're put into these positions that they shouldn't be. I mean, obviously the, the word speaks to that.

They're like new believers. Um, and baby believers should not be propped up. It's not fair to them.

It's not good to the church. And there's wolves out there ready to absolutely twist anything they say and use it against them.

Yeah. Have you noticed anything, uh, John, have you noticed anything in terms of like specific sports, uh, like more of a tendency in the

NFL college football, as opposed to like the NBA? Cause I think of guys like Steve Kerr and basically the entirety of the golden state warriors.

Uh, but then I've baseball's my first love and I haven't seen a whole lot of that in major league baseball. Well, baseball is the most

Christian because it's mentioned right in Genesis one in the beginning. That's right. Yeah. Right.

Yeah. I haven't heard that joke since like, um, honestly

I think it's happening to football. I think football is the most, uh, Christian and most conservative sport out there.

I mean, the NBA ratings, there's a reason that those have tanked almost 50%. People are sick and tired of Steve Kerr, Steph Curry, LeBron James.

Uh, there's a lot of godlessness in the NBA and in basketball in general. Um, baseball,

I mean, there was a, there was a solid little pushback, um, against the LGBTQ pride stuff.

They weren't wearing the patches, right? Yeah. Some people weren't wearing the jerseys or the hats or the patches. Um, there was a, there was some pushback against the sisters of perpetual indulgence, uh, that whole

Dodgers fiasco. But in football, it seems like there's a ton of players that are outspoken

Christian, uh, and you know, players of prominence, which is, you know, it's not like a

QB is more important than the long snapper, um, when it comes to the kingdom of God. But I do see there's a lot more conservative and Christian leaning in, in football.

And I, I, I don't know, I wouldn't be able to dive in fully right now about, about like the demographics or why that is or, or whatever, but I think football, it's pretty evident.

And I think that, I think, uh, I think Dale, I think it was you that was mentioning, um, you know, new, new believers or, um, people who come to faith sitting under like good teaching because it's not good for the church.

It's not good for them. And I think Russell brand is probably the biggest example of that right now. Wouldn't you say? Yeah, gosh,

I'd love to get him under solid theological and doctrinal teaching because you know, he's right there seeking.

Yeah, you're right, Parker. And you just go, ah, well, he was reading, uh, only since yesterday, because I just saw all over my feed today and yesterday that it was now

Denzel that got, um, I mean, he's a way bigger star of course, than Russell brand. So Denzel's now been baptized.

And on the same day he was baptized, he was given a certificate of ordination. And I'm like, that's hilarious.

Isn't that how it works? I'll tell you what, everyone getting baptized and getting ordinated versus them.

Diddy files coming out. Let's not forget this. There was a time where we had some beauty pageant woman who comes out and speaks on pro -life and everyone's like,

Oh, Oh, we have to have her. She's like this great speaker. We're going to have her to speak for Christianity. And then it's comes out that,

Oh yeah, she's sharing nudes of herself to her boyfriend and others. Right. So, so the fact is that we just rushed because it's like, why is it that so many

Christians want to get affirmation from someone that's loved by the world rather than by Christ?

Yeah. We have the name that is above every name already, you know, and we don't need this guy's name or that guy's name, or, you know, we already have

Christ who has the name above every name and at his name, every knee will bow. So my thought is that with the internet and social media influence, it's really like an unstoppable reality, right?

So say you get saved and you're a, you're, you have no platform at all. You're going to at least go tell everybody in your life, your coworkers, whoever it may be.

Um, but let's just say that you, you get saved and you have, you know, 10 million followers on social media, you're going to do the same.

And so it's, you know, Russell Brand is a content creator. Um, you know, obviously

God's providence saved him in a state that he is. Um, and so, you know, I think that he, him talking about it is one thing, platforming him like other major institutions is another.

Um, and, and so, yeah, you know, I love that. I saw him reading, you know, what Joe, Joe boots mission of God.

Um, and so he was getting in some of that deeper content there. Um, you know, I, I like, uh,

Pete Hegseth, right. As another good example, you know, obviously, you know, he's in Hames church, uh, with, uh,

Brooks, Potter, and, um, and I, I love that he's got that base that I know he's getting fed really strong doctrine and his influence is just beginning.

Um, and so we, we need some more of that, but yeah, if we can get, uh, guys like, uh, and then, you know, again, you have, you have a lot of these people also running

Rome. Um, and again, I think it's just religiosity, uh, you know, the Candace Owens, the

Jordan Peterson, you know, whole, uh, you know, we, who struggle with God or wrestle with God thing, you know, that, that was,

I don't, I don't even know if they had one solid reform Protestant on that panel of people.

It was like, you know, Jews and, and, and Catholics and EOs.

And, and, and so, um, yeah, we're at interesting times right now. So I think that it's, it's really managing, uh, again, like getting back to at least the gospel, the fundamentals of the gospel.

I just want to hear Russell brand and he, I think he has communicate the fundamentals of the gospel.

Uh, and I think that, that once someone gives me that, I go, okay, like, if you get that, like you get like, you know, imputed righteousness or, um, you know, or imputed sin or second

Corinthians five 21 type stuff, that's a big, that's a big positive green flag for me.

I'm glad you brought up, uh, Rome Dale, because unfortunately I think in our social media world, people want to legitimize

Protestantism with the celebrity, because that's what the Roman Catholic church is doing.

Like, Hey, look at all these celebrities that we got. And it's like, they're building their Mount Rushmore of celebrities that have converted to, to Rome.

And unfortunately I think people get caught up on social media. We're like, all right, well, uh, you got that celebrity.

We got this celebrity as if we were like, need to match them up. It's like, we know that we're a part of, we have the true gospel.

We're a part of the true church. Um, and we don't need to be fighting for celebrity, but hopefully we see the

Russell brands out there where there seems to be a radical transformation. Hopefully we're health, like there's a healthy skepticism, but we see something like Tarot or yoga, like early on.

And we can say like, you know, I'm still skeptical, but I can throw it out there and be like,

Hey, that doesn't align with the gospel at all. Um, and just like you said, there's hopefully good people around them that give them the truth of the gospel and not this watered down gospel or this little like non -denominational or a little bit of Roman Catholicism.

It's like, no, here's the truth. It's in the word. Um, but I know for sure, I think some people within like the social media circles are fighting for that celebrity

Protestant conversion that somehow would legitimize us more, which is really done.

This is nothing new. We see us through our history where everyone seems to Christ is not enough for people.

They, they want Christ plus something because it gives them legitimacy. True. We, we need

Christ alone. He's enough. We need no other name.

Yeah. Well, you, you get this, this bizarre ecumenical, like red Rover, you know, red Rover, red Rovers and Michael Knowles on over, you know, it's such a bizarre thing that happens.

And, and I remember of course, when the Kanye thing first happened. Yeah. And, um, thank you.

And, uh, and, and, and when Kanye happened in a lot, a lot of folks, myself included were like, eh, give it a minute, you know?

And then of course he went totally off the rails bananas, you know, and you kind of go, this is why we, you know,

I, just yesterday preached on first John four, one to six, you know, and, and test the spirits, see if they be from God, you know, and, and that whole passage is saying, look, you know, make sure that the guy that says

Jesus by name actually means the Jesus that you and I mean, you know, just because they say

Jesus does not mean anything. The guy that was witnesses that knocked on my door last week say

Jesus, you know, but, but they don't mean the same Jesus that I'm talking about. I went to church with a guy that, that knew

Kanye personally from years and years ago. And he, he contacted Kanye when he was going out and doing his

Sunday specials. And he basically told him, stop doing that. Like you're, you're not in a position to be doing that.

I don't, you know, it doesn't matter your platform. It doesn't matter how you care that you're going to bring people to Christ. You need to sit under discipled teaching and learn before you go out there in public and be going,

Oh, you got, you know, look what I could do for Christ. He's like, you won't be able to do anything for Christ. If you don't first learn to be a disciple.

Yeah. Kanye felt like a spiritual miscarriage. It was just like, it was just like, you know, okay.

You're like, it's the, it's the root and it sprouts up and you're like, man, that looks good. It looks like it's going to go.

And then it just gets choked out. Um, and I think we can say with almost certainty that it's choked out.

Um, you know, just the stuff that, that has been going on. So who knows where the state of the, uh, of Kanye soul, you know, what, one thing that I'd love to chat about with you guys is, is just kind of this, um, uh, like a, a

Catholicity, a healthy form of, you know, we all know this term of reformed Catholicity.

Um, that I think people are trying to see, I think trying to pull that off at least between, you know, maybe reformed

Baptist Presbyterians and Anglicans. Um, and you know, I was at a

AmFest, uh, this week, uh, down with the Charlie Kirk crowd. And, you know,

I have, I have a buddy, you know, from Australia, his name's Andrew Sidra. He's a charismatic through and through knows the gospel certainly born again, but you know, his wife preaches that, you know, every now and then, and he's, he's got all the charismatic stuff that I disagree with.

And then I had him on my right taking a photo and then I had Calvin Robinson on my left. Um, and so you got, you know,

I actually, we made a joke that it was like a charismatic, a Calvinist and a Catholic, you know, walk into a bar, you know, and so, so, you know, and then, you know, uh,

Calvin, you know, I, I really love and, and he's surprising me more and more on his doctrinal positions, but then he's got some stuff that's just totally way out in left field.

And we know that we disagree on. And so I'm trying to figure out how to balance these relationships where you go,

Hey, we can still, uh, we can still be friends, have, have stark disagreements.

Where's the line, you know, I think it's on the gospel. I think it's on the new birth. Um, I think it's, you know, faith, uh, you know, faith alone.

Um, you know, not so, so anyways, I'm just, that's the thing that I'm, I'm really fighting through right now, trying to figure out the,

I think a lot of people are trying to figure out how do you balance that with a kind of the, the wideness of Christendom right now in America?

Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's crazy because you, you can allow yourself to be kind of joined in, in link arms with other people on broader political issues, even sometimes, right?

Like abortion or some progressive tax stuff, or, you know, you can come together and go, okay, we can all agree that this is good or not good.

And we should agree or disagree with it. But then it feels like we really, and of course, you know, we don't want to be heretical or have wolves or anything like that.

But, but I would say I've even had infighting between brothers who they both believe the, the apostles creed.

And I would go, man, that's a pretty good starting point for orthodoxy, isn't it? So should there be some leeway there within the body of Christ for those who believe in orthodox when

I'm saying orthodox, I'm not saying like Eastern or Western thing, orthodox Christianity, those core tenants. We need, we need a new term.

Yeah, we do really need a new term other than orthodox. I think you're right though. I think you guys are right on the, just using the apostles creed.

I know, I think that Doug talked about that Amir Christendom, the idea of like a, kind of a, you know, the, the apostles creed being the main creed that to terms of your

Trinitarian, you know, throw the Mormons are out, the J dubs are out, you know, but, but you got, you know, some of the

Anglo Catholics, you got all the way down to kind of the charismatic or even, you know, just kind of low hanging, you know, weird

Protestantism, milquetoast Protestantism. So but yeah, I think that is something.

Have any of you guys been trying to figure that out as well? I, if, if I jumped in here real quick, obviously somebody that was involved with Turning Point for two and a half years, definitely won't get into the behind the scenes.

I don't think that would be healthy. But I do see an ecumenical nature in a place like that.

And obviously you see that with faith. And then you see that within conservatism, like conservatism is not rooted in a specific place at times.

And that seems like it gets redefined, just like many other terms. And then the ecumenical nature of, we can look at someone like Calvin Robinson and be like, yeah, like, you have some things that are really strong, really bold, we can agree with, maybe on a political standpoint.

And then other times, it's like, you think the reformation was a mistake. It's like, you know, how do we have those conversations without somebody feeling like, you know, you're platforming them, or you're giving them a position that, you know, we're not equally yoked with this person, it seems like, and, you know, how can we have those conversations that are healthy and not feel like we're linking arms with somebody that we shouldn't be linking arms with.

But there definitely is times where we see churches like, you know, Andrew, Andrew's a great dude.

I've hung out with him, Cedric, many times, really, really great guy. I'm with you,

Dale. It's like, I'm not questioning salvation at all. But I see other, you know, weird fringes like Bethel, it's like, their arms linked away from turning point at times.

And it's like, that's not the gospel. And what they're sharing there is like, those are, by every biblical standpoint, false teachers.

And we can come together and say, yeah, that ain't it. And that's what kind of scares me at times is, you know, you kind of stick to this surface level of like, oh, well,

I believe in Jesus. And I believe that like, kind of Jesus lived and died and rose again.

And if that's kind of like, that's obviously a great starting point. But at times, you're kind of misusing scripture here.

You're adding, you know, manmade tradition on top of these things, that hopefully we can have a healthy skepticism.

And then at times, like really draw a hard line and be like this. Like, I can be friends with you, but I don't think you should be platformed at this event or, you know, throwing on this social media platform or anything like that.

Again, guys, I know it's very vague, but hopefully that like still is the healthy skepticism we should have.

Yeah, I agree with you, John. I think you're right. I think it's finding that balance. I think there needs to be a place for better debates between those groups and in Christendom that are real, that are, you know, classy statesmen level debates that are willing to have hard discussions around theology and doctrine.

I think people in the church would be eating that up right now. Because, I mean, have we had, sorry to cut you off,

Dale, have we had anything since like the, I don't know how you guys feel about the Unbelievable podcast. Like even someone like Justin Brierley, there's some differences there, but it seemed like he had the platform that had some of those great doctrinal debates, even, you know, within the church and then people on the outside.

Is there anything like that? Is it, would you want something like that? Is that what you're talking about?

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. I'm thinking about, you know, conversational debates or at least some vague structure.

I mean, just some structure doesn't have to be, you know, loosey goosey, but doesn't also have to be like a full blown debate that we're going to get everybody together for it.

But I think that more, you know, more than James White needs to come out and have some discussions around these matters with other people and people also that are even not, you know, again, like a

Calvin Robinson where you're like, okay, you're not as far off as like full blown Roman Catholicism.

But let's debate what we are different so that we can show the lines to people that are following us and go, hey, you know, this is what we have in common.

This is where we disagree. And I think a lot of people are trying to figure that out around guys like him and around guys like Andrew Sidra.

And how do we be friends without compromise on truth in the midst of it?

And I think friends, I think by respect, I think honor, you know, I think honestly disagreeing and clarifying those disagreements, but doing it, doing it in a way that's not rude or insulting.

Especially again, when you're talking within kind of Apostles Creed people, I'm talking to the

Mormons, I'm going to insult their doctrine because they're on the outside, you know. Well, Dale, the real issue is, you know, we have to have debates without platform building.

We have to have debates where people are interested in explaining their point of view without misrepresenting someone else's point of view to communicate the truths that they believe, not for the sake of getting a bunch of people to follow them.

You know, and to John's point, you guys probably aren't familiar with Apologetics Live, but that's what we do. I mean, it's a live stream.

I get people that come in, they are prepared for a debate against me. I have no idea I'm debating that night.

I actually love that. I think it's fun. But, you know, the thing is treat them with respect.

I mean, a guy who I've debated more than anybody else is Matt Slick from karm .org.

Matt and I are very good friends, but disagree on a whole host of things. He's Presbyterian, I'm Baptist, he's continuationist,

I'm a cessationist. He believes in infant baptism. I believe in the Bible. Oh, sorry, Greg. You know, but the thing is, one of the things that people have always commented about when we debate each other is we always take the time to address the strawman arguments that our side makes against the other side, because we're not interested in winning the debate.

We're interested in communicating the truths that we believe from God's Word. And there's not enough people doing debate doing that.

It takes a certain level of maturity too, right? And I think especially... Wait, wait, hold on. Did Greg just call me mature?

I didn't say you do it. I just said in general. Well, it takes a certain level of maturity. And then what you have is you have, especially within reform circles, and Matthew has jumped on a few minutes ago, and we're going to introduce him and get him in the conversation,

Matthew Everhart. But what happens is you have a whole bunch of people in the reform circle that are always about, oh, look at those charismatics and the

Pentecostals, and they're all, you know, controlled by their emotions and their excitement.

And then we're controlled by our emotions and our immaturity, by our jealousy, and by our anger, all these things.

So just a different set of emotions when, in fact, the way you talk to somebody, the way you treat somebody does show a certain level of maturity in Christ.

And I know it's taken me a long time to go from cage stage to just trying to want to argue someone to go, oh, no, let me listen to that person and actually hear what they're saying, consider their points.

If I disagree with it, I can. But also we can get in a rough and tumble discussion and 10 minutes later, we're going to go get coffee together.

There's nothing wrong with that. Yeah. And I think that the key is if you're actually friends with a person, I think it really helps to have a good debate.

I think if you get to start off with a relationship that you actually like the guy, it's a lot harder to be a jerk.

And so you get to have a real relationship. But if you don't know the person, it can easily become just like, you're my enemy, you're my opponent.

And I think that's something that I'm just going to say, you don't have to be friends.

Right. I mean, I've I've debated Muslims. I've debated plenty of people on college campuses and elsewhere. I'm talking in Apostles Creed people, though.

But even then, you can still show respect to people. Yeah. Even more so to a brother.

Yes, sure. You should. Yeah. So, Matthew Everhart, what's up, brother? What's up, you guys?

How are you? Good to see you all tonight. Hi, Matthew. Hey, what's up, buddy? Matthew Everhart has a new book out,

Worship Tainment. Great book. Read it. Highly recommend it. We're talking about things that maybe, well, we got off subject a little bit of what the live stream is, but it was very good conversation.

But we're talking about kind of ideas or opinions that we have that may have thrown us onto the island of misfit toys to keep that Christmas theme going.

Things that you stand on in truth and say, here I stand, I will not waver, and has gotten maybe blowback on social media, from friends, family, from the leftists.

I know every single person on this live stream, I've seen it either in person or on social media, them saying something that was truthful, godly, biblical,

Christ -reflecting, and just got eaten alive for it because they stood on his word. Has there been anything like that for you,

Matthew? Or throw something else out there for us, and we'll go in that direction. Well, sure. First of all, thanks for having me on.

You know, I jumped on the conversation when you guys were talking about godly debating, and just a shout out to my homeboy,

Keith Foskey, who I think is doing a very good job at this kind of thing, because Keith is, first of all, a very likable person, and I know it's a little bit lame to use the word winsome these days, when it's a day that calls for courage.

But Keith is winsome and courageous, and he's done a number of debates where they're just positive, friendly, biblical, not prone to ad hominem attacks or anything like that.

He's done a number of these. Matter of fact, me and him, we did a debate, about a two -hour kind of friendly debate. Very, very modest rule sets.

Didn't have to have all the strictures of like a James White debate, not that there's anything wrong with that. But we talked about the

Sabbath being the Lord's day, or what the abiding pertinence is of the fourth commandment.

It was a wonderful conversation, and him and I are friends behind the scenes, so I thought that was awesome of Keith, and he continues to do stuff like that, which is very helpful apologetically.

As for my doctrine of misfit toys, again, I'm late to the party here tonight, guys, but I want to talk a little bit about the regulative principle of worship, because that is something that I hold dear, and certainly it's featured in my book,

Worshiptainment, The Modern Church's Golden Calf, where I wrote a polemical work that in some ways attacks probably what's happening in 90 % of generically evangelical churches, with the kind of reductionistic concert in a

TED Talk model of worship. And in my book, I'm calling for a return to the regulative principle of worship and a robust understanding of the elements of worship, preaching, prayer, confession, psalm singing, sacraments, doxologies, benedictions, simple worship, beautiful worship that's biblical in its roots and historical, confessional, all that.

And so that's probably my doctrine of misfit toys, where I get a lot of kickback. Even our view of the

Second Commandments and our understanding of the images of Christ probably would put us at odds with a lot of evangelicals here today.

But it's something that's worth standing for, because worship is the very center and heart of what it is that we do and are as believers.

And so I'm hoping that my book makes some kind of an impact in the broader evangelical world as people, again, think about how important it is that our worship services would be ordered around what

God actually commands us to do in worship, not what we feel like we should do for our felt needs in worship.

No, that's so good. And I would say too, what I wanted to... Oh, go ahead. What? Oh, I thought somebody yelled at me there.

Oh, I was just going to say, because I wanted to bring Parker in on this too, but you said, Matthew, that even the whole images thing, which

I've really been rolling around in my head too, to include not only icons, images, but also movies and film to where, you know,

I've had so much pushback within my family over the last three or four years, and a lot of friends too, just talking about shows like The Chosen, where I just go, well, me and my family have chosen, no pun intended, or maybe pun intended, to not partake in that because it's really been weighing on my conscience of what are we representing

Christ as, and does it fall under blasphemy laws and all these kind of things.

And that was one where I got a lot of pushback on, where people go, oh, just a show about Jesus, nice, there's no cussing, there's no nudity, the family can watch it.

And it's like, that's the standard, it seems like, for Christians to watch shows now. It's, you know, never mind if it's heretical.

But I found a lot of my charismatic friends, kind of like earlier in the stream, like we were talking about, I had one pastor of a very large church here locally say, his answer to me about not watching shows, he goes, but at least the word

Jesus is getting out. At least people are hearing the name Jesus. And I went, oh, so that's what it is.

We use it like incantations in the evangelical world, like Jesus is like a magic spell. And I think

Corey was kind of talking about that earlier. Oh, if you just say Jesus, and it's like, well, I mean, Satan knows the name of Jesus, right?

Atheists know the name of Jesus. Like, what Jesus are we talking about? That's the very important thing to me.

But I know Watch Well podcast, Parker, you're in the movie, kind of realm in film industry.

And obviously, you own an editing company, like, what are your thoughts on not only just chosen, but just like, how

Christ is represented in media? Has that ever been pushed back for you? Um, yeah,

I would say, that's a big question, Greg. I can throw it over to John there.

I think he was waving his hand or Claude. I would just say that when it comes to whole Jesus thing, if you apply that same logic, as long as the name of Christ is getting out, you could apply that to a lot of different religions.

I think it was either Dale or John that mentioned it before, maybe maybe it was Corey, where you actually have to go and and surgically look at like, what what they mean by when they're defined terms?

What do you mean by Christ? What do you mean by Jesus? Is he the Lord? Is he Satan's brother is like, like, who, which

Jesus are we talking about? So when it comes to the chosen, I guess, I guess my opinion, I just don't know why it's needed.

Just because just because people are, you know, coming to Christ through the show doesn't mean that the show is also good, because our

God can use bad things and make good of them. Well, it's kind of like a bad, it's just a bad metric in my in my mind to say that people are coming to Christ, therefore, it's good.

Yeah, he gives grace to the we continue sending by no means. Yeah, I'd love to hear the you know, these guys's opinion.

Zoolander, what do you got for us? Oh, that's John Rood. I mean, sorry. This will be probably my last comment before I got to go.

Before the comment to really appreciate being on this panel with you guys. It's a blessing. Love the work that you guys do.

But with the chosen, I mean, I was the guy that ended up reaching out to them online about the pride flag thing.

In case people didn't know. I didn't see that. Yeah. You know, I didn't. I didn't come blasting them right away.

Probably could. But I did my own research. And I looked at their behind the scenes video.

There's a rainbow pride flag. It's prominent. It's in their behind the scenes footage. They know that it's there.

And there's a major LGBTQ issue within this show.

Like, there's a lot of LGBTQ affirming actors. Dallas Jenkins, the director is totally okay with it.

He just said it's it's just a three inch pride flag. It's just a little bit of cancer. It's not that bad. And there's so many issues because people say, well,

I think I'm seeing a genuine move of God in people's lives. And they credit the chosen.

I mean, I know a guy that got saved because of the grace of God. But it was through turning on the

TV and who was on Joel Osteen. Are we going to say just because God worked through turning on the television and by his providence, this life was saved through this medium?

It's like, I just know it's going to like, all right, well, Joel Osteen's all right. Kenneth Copeland's all right.

There's a litany of issues within that show. And I think a lot of people just want a circus.

They want to be entertained. They don't they see Jesus and he's asking Matthew and his mother

Mary for help with the Sermon on the Mount. That should have a there should be a red flag that that goes off when

Joseph tells Jesus within the chosen that he trespassed like a red flag should go off when

Jesus tells people like, no, don't worship me. Or he omits repentance when he's quoting scripture to Nicodemus like these red flags should go off and people should start to realize where it's like, hmm, maybe this actually has an agenda behind it.

And it's trying to give us maybe a he gets us type of Christianity. He gets us kind of Jesus.

And it's not the biblical Jesus. And it's not just a bunch of legalistic, pharisaical, reformed bros and Theo bros that are just trying to tear down anything good.

It's shot really well. The cinematography is great. The acting is good. But we're not looking for entertainment.

We're looking for a solid representation of the Bible. And probably a lot of guys here would say, you know, this is a second commandment violation in the first place.

So, like, I just can't get behind it. But we're asking it to be faithful to the text. It hasn't been faithful to the text.

And there's unfortunately a lot of people that are going along with the circus of the chosen and the chosen.

Last thing to long ramble. I'll go after this is the chosen is in churches across the country.

They claim not to be a ministry and they want people to preach through the lens of the chosen.

They want to introduce people with Christianity and then have sermon outlines which they provide to these churches they're connected with.

And they want it to be a Bible substitute, ecumenical in nature. And it's there's

Roman Catholicism. There's Mormonism. And it's just it's unfortunate to see a lot of people idolize the chosen and stick with the inerrancy of the chosen instead of the inerrancy of Scripture.

I will drop that bomb there. I love you guys. Merry Christmas. Have a beautiful day with your family.

God bless you guys. Grenade and leaves. Hey, Matt, I want to ask you a question about your book.

So when you talked about, you know, the regulative principle, did you do you mention in your book anything about kneeling during corporate confession of sin?

No, that's not it's not meant to be an exhaustive treatise on every possible, you know, controversial matter.

But basically, the book introduces the regulative principle in Chapter one. And then I applied that principle to some of the major aspects of worship, including a chapter on expository preaching, which, of course,

I encourage a section on church music, a section on liturgy, a section on the sacraments, and then finally a section on church leadership.

But I don't take up some of those smaller issues that have been historically debated in the past. Not at that minute level.

No, it's more just an introduction. I'm hoping that broad evangelicals will read the book and just consider a little bit about what it means to worship biblically in terms of just forming our worship services based around things that the

Bible actually commends rather than trying to invent different kinds of worship. As for posturing, my own particular position is that the scripture commends various different kinds of posture when we worship, including standing, kneeling, lying on one's face, lifting one's hands, singing, remaining silent.

So all of those could be conceivably appropriate at times. But if I could encourage anybody to do anything,

I would just want people to return to biblical expository preaching and drop the theatrics from worship.

If you watch Protestia on their Twitter or their X page, he does an excellent job of cataloging some of the worst mischief makers in terms of worship attainment today.

And the goal of the book is just to push everybody one step closer to a biblical form of worship with a great amount of freedom, for the most part, in terms of how we would structure our orders of worship and things like that.

I'm pretty generous there. Was that the one that punted the Bible across the stage? Yeah, punted it across the stage.

This is such a needed discussion as well. I've never met you, Matt, but I own a small guitar effects pedal company called

Westminster Effects. It's all church history themed. My initial, my original target demographic was church musicians, basically encouraging them, hey, y 'all can read better books, you know, start with the

Bible and then, you know, here's some Edwards, here's some Spurgeon, et cetera. And you know who I don't really target anymore is church musicians because they don't care.

They really just want to entertain goats. And it's been pretty sad to witness, honestly.

Yeah, but you got Skillet, so you're good, right? I mean, he's out there repping your pedals. Well, yeah, but that is a totally different target demographic.

No, I think it's a great book, Matt. I think that it's like step one into reformed ecclesiology or reformed worship, you know, because I'm sure like many of you guys, it's been a spectrum of a journey for me.

I mean, I went from, again, Southern California, Calvary Chapel, all the way to, you know,

Westminster, you know, Presbyterian, you know, and so this is like, it was such a long journey and it took so many years of studying.

I'm a pastor. I'm reading 50 hours a week, you know, so like the average person that can, you know, throw on a podcast or read one book a month or something like that, we just,

I think it's a good effort to move people just a little bit closer so that they can realize the flaws in, you know,

American churchianity. Well, and I know even teaching, you know, at a

PCA church, I mean, I'm under care, like I said earlier, under care, heading towards TEM and RE already in the

PCA, as Matthew's a TE in the PCA, even at a PCA church in an adult

Sunday school class, when I taught on the regulative principle, it was fairly like,

I won't say it was something that I got a ton of pushback on, but there wasn't, it wasn't like, oh, we're

Presbyterian, we already get this. Nope, no, that was not the case, you know, and it's not that our church is really egregious on, you know, having a lot of bad regulative principle stuff going on in the service.

We don't, we don't have smoke machines and all that stuff, but it's just not, they knew that our services were, as most of the adults would have said, our services were boring, but they didn't understand, you know, any principles behind it.

They didn't understand that there was a biblical, they didn't have any idea about any of that.

So, I mean, I can say, even from a denomination that adheres to the regular principle, it is still something that is really not talked about very much, and I mean, yeah, when

I had Matt on my podcast, we talked through it, and I read the book, I thought, man, what an incredible idea to do such a, you know, very accessible primer for what is a difficult to digest doctrine in 2024.

I got a quick comment. I'm gonna jump out, Greg. Okay. Two comments, actually. So, revolving around what everyone has said, this has been, first of all, thank you again for inviting me to be on.

I'm like the Forrest Gump of this group. I thank you for letting me be here. You're a millionaire?

No, but first of all, just a general broad statement. I'm thankful that God can draw a crooked stick, right, like what has been said here, right, that even on or off circumstances and on or off cases that the gospel is proclaimed and folks get saved.

However, I would say to what everyone's saying here tonight, that there truly does need to be a standard.

The regular principle is a standardization, right, of our worship principles and our worship practices set forth in the church, but I would say this.

It's got to begin with the church. The church has to move away from the entertainment mentality and the entertainment principle.

It's not a circus where we're trying to feed the goats and entertain the goats.

The goal of the pastor, of the elder, of the local church is to feed the sheep so that and to this end that they may grow in the grace and the knowledge of our

Lord Jesus Christ. It's better that we know Christ, and we only know

Christ according to the Word. The better that we know Christ, the better that we are able to worship

Him, the better that we are able to love Him, and the better that we are able to serve

Him because it's from that regenerated heart that is continually molded and that we are sanctified by the

Word of God that we are made into the image of Christ, and that will cause us to be better Christians in the long run if we just would do that.

We should, I encourage as an elder and a pastor myself, I encourage congregants of local churches, press your pastors and your elders to feed you the scriptures and nothing else, right?

If the lights go off, and I know this is somewhat cliche, but if the lights go off, what does that matter?

If the heat or the air goes off, what does that matter? The Word should be preached above all else.

The Word and the communication and the preaching and proclamation of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the evangelization of the saints and of the lost is necessary within the local church.

So, I think we need to return to that. Thank you all. Guys, I appreciate you all.

All right, Claude, love you, brother. Here I stay on Theology Podcast. Go check him out. What Claude just mentioned,

I preached in the Philippines once in the Sky Dome, 1 ,500 people lost the

AC, not a single person left. Try that in America. The second time I was there during a heat wave, we weren't in a building, we were just an outside tent where they had fans.

People were hungry for the Word of God. Try that in America. Oh, the temperature isn't right,

I can't go to church. My Starbucks was late. Hey, listen,

I want to switch gears here really quick. Parker, read this comment that someone just put up here. I'd like to hear one of you guys comment on this if you wanted to give him some advice.

Read that for us. All right, so I'm not even going to try and say the first part of this person's name, but the last part is faction. This person asks, what advice would you give for a young Christian who wants to go in law enforcement?

Given the corruption in the subjectivity to kill bad guys at some point, is it a safe career push?

Okay, I'm going to take it just because I got to jump. This is my last go here.

I'm sure you guys will have better answers than mine. We have guys in our church that have been police officers and have been in law enforcement at various degrees, working in prisons.

One, it really does feel in a sense somewhat like a calling in terms of an equipping, at least for sure.

You have to have the wisdom, the discernment, the self -control, and also a desire really to bring the light into a very dark place.

It's a burden similar to ministry on your family, a burden upon your wife and children, lots of risk and lots of responsibility.

I have seen police officers do incredible work with sharing the gospel when you have a captive audience in the backseat of your car, and so it becomes a really great ministry there.

Also, we want more Christians in law enforcement that I think are upholding a righteous interpretation of the law, that are showing grace, that are showing mercy, that are also upholding righteousness.

They're actually putting the sword out on evil, and so I think it is a great thing to infiltrate those particular civil spheres.

We need more godly people in those places. I would say, yes, if you're the right guy, it shouldn't be like,

I was thinking about being either a this or a that or a this. I think there really needs to be a little bit more clarity and a desire, but if you have a protective instinct, if your family wants to support you there, if you're a man of integrity and you can handle hard situations with discernment,

I think it's a great career path and a very respectable and honorable career path for Christians to check out.

That'll be my last go, but hey, it's been really great hanging out with you guys. Thanks, Dale. Merry Christmas.

Dale, where can people find you and follow you? Throw it out there real quick. Just on Instagram and on Twitter, just at Dale Partridge, and relearn .org.

That's the main thing that I'm doing. All right, brother. You have a good Christmas. See you guys. You too. Merry Christmas, buddy. Yeah, I used to work for the

Department of Corrections in the state of Indiana, and so I've done a little bit of that, but again, let's take it back to the

Bible, because I agree with what Dale said. I think there's plenty of fodder there. I have two daughters and a son.

My son is named Micah, and he's named Micah because my favorite verse in the Bible is Micah 6 .8, and so I would encourage any young man that is looking into law enforcement or the military or any kind of marshal -type job like that.

I think Micah 6 .8 is such a great verse for any young man that has that type of bearing of, you know, the

Lord has told you what is good, and what does the Lord require of you, but to do justly. You must seek justice because God is a

God of justice. He gave us justice, so He expects us to be men of justice, and then love mercy.

Give mercy every possible chance that you have. Dole out mercy with as much extreme abundance as you possibly can, knowing, sadly, that there will be times that mercy will reach its limit, and that mercy no longer will be something that can be given.

And what do you do at those points? Well, you fall back to option A, which is do justly. You have to then do justly, and while you're doing both of those things, you walk humbly with the

Lord your God. You know, I mean, that sounds like such a simple verse, but I've told my son repeatedly, son, if you could get even halfway close to doing this one verse, if you could live as a young man and into your older age as a man that follows this one verse and follows it well, you'll be so far beyond your peer set that it'll be insane.

Yeah, no, that's good advice. So as someone who worked for the federal government, both under the George W.

Bush and Obama administrations, you know, let me just say, if someone's looking to get into law enforcement, yes, there's corruption at the top.

Guess what? No matter what company you work for, there's corruption at the top. So just give that idea up.

I mean, at the level of law enforcement, you got to decide what you're going in for, okay, and what level you're going to rise to.

So you're going into law enforcement for the sake of protecting people in America for serving your country in this way.

That's your goal? Then you do just that, and you fight the corruption as it comes up.

Now, it may come to a point where things are so corrupt as I had to deal with, where, you know, under Obama, I had to step out, could not continue doing it because what they were doing was so corrupt, and I was party of it, and I couldn't partake.

So when you get to that point, yeah, then you make that decision. But we need, you know, kind of as was just said, you know, we need more people to be in these roles, because if not, then, yeah, the corruption just gets to roll over.

We need people that are going to stand up and push back, because there are times where when you have people pushing back and saying, yeah, but you're saying to do this, and the law says this, that they go, oh, we need people that are willing to not only do the role and do it well, but to do it with integrity, because unfortunately, you know, depending which area of law enforcement you are, there's a lot of differences, whether you're in a, you know, a police officer role versus a, you know, three -letter, you know, government agency.

There's differences there. And when you're in those different groups, it's going to be a difference of how much that's going to influence.

But if you're in one of those groups where, yeah, it's impacting you greatly, well, the reality is, is you may need to stand up.

You may need to be a whistleblower. You may need to push back where you can, and you may need to leave.

But that shouldn't deter you from saying, I'm a young person who wants to make, you know, to do this in a field where, yeah, at the top, there's corruption.

Yeah, be in that role and be the Christian and be the light and salt that we need to be.

Yeah. Yeah. And in a perfect Romans 13 role, I mean, police officers are ministers of peace.

They have been appointed by God to administer justice, to protect the righteous and to bring justice to evildoers.

I mean, when I was a young kid growing up, I wasn't even allowed to say cop. I, my dad said, cops can call each other cops.

You call them police officers, show them the right respect and authority that God has placed them in, whether they're corrupt or not, they will face judgment one day for those actions.

But yeah, I agree with all that. Well, look at, we're going into the final 25 minutes here. We might have one or two more people jump on it in the last minutes, but I wanted to change gears here because we have

Parker Brown here in studio with us from the watch well podcast for all you guys watching out there right now, make sure you go subscribe to watch.

Well, he takes movies and you guys watch them, the guests and you both watch them. And then you guys discuss them and you go, okay, let's let's talk about how this relates to what, what's your tagline presuppositional movie is presuppositional apologetics applied to film.

But in a way, every single movie that has ever been made contains eternal truths that hold the narrative together.

Yeah. And those eternal truths are from our worldview, a Christian, a Christian worldview. So we just observe what

Hollywood steals is essentially what we say. I love it. So this is what I wanted to do as we go around here. And as we're kind of rounding this out,

I want each of you guys, and we'll start with Andrew, then we'll go through. I want you to name your favorite Christmas movie.

Since this is a Christmas live stream special, we're going to be celebrating the birth of our savior here in two days.

Give me your, well, we don't have to, we don't have to start with Andrew. He's rolling his eyes. Maybe he doesn't have one, but what is your favorite?

Let's start with, let's start with the Jewish guy. What's your favorite Christmas movie? Okay. If you have one, throw it out there, tell me a favorite

Christmas movie. Why? And you want to throw in your favorite Christmas, Carol, as well, too, because I got raked over the coals a few nights ago on Keith Foskey's.

When I said joy to the world, and they said, that's not even about Christmas. It's about the second coming, which maybe it is, but I've got a soft spot for Isaac Watts.

Okay. I made it my own based off of Keith Foskey's thing. Should I announce that, you know, um,

Home Alone or, or, uh, Christmas movies. Oh, that's so funny.

All I'm saying is if there's a contingent of believers out there that think diehard is a Christmas movie, then I can think that joy to the world is a

Christmas Carol. That's all I'm saying. I'm using the same logic. They are, but, uh, Cody, it looks, it looks like you're smiling there.

You gotta, you gotta go to Christmas movie and Christmas Carol or him that you, that you prefer above all the others.

My man, Christmas movie, joy to the world of the Christmas song. Uh, favorite Christmas song is

O come O come Emmanuel, but understood covenantally and not dispensationally. Now I will say,

Matthew just said, diehard, not in the Bible. So prescriptively not allowed to watch that. I think he just said, uh, we looked it up in worship attainment.

You know, I was going to say, if, if we take what Matthew said with the regulatory principle and apply it to hermeneutics, you'd all be dispensational.

So I'm just saying, don't you start, we got the one dispute in here.

That's got a big mouth. Hey, I'll throw out my favorite Christmas movie and favorite

Christmas hymn. Um, so the Christmas vacation with Chevy chase is hilarious.

The first 20 minutes of that is pure gold. I laugh at every single scene, every single second.

But the reason I love that movie so much, I actually have a Christmas vacation Chevy chase t -shirt. I'm not wearing it right now. I should have, but because he, um, he wants so badly to have the perfect family

Christmas. He is like the, he's the last true gentleman that wants to have everybody over, wants everybody to, to truly celebrate.

And, uh, I just, I relate to him so much. My Christmas hymn, if I wasn't picking a song and I feel like I should pick a song, but, um, my favorite hymn for Christmas is, is called let all mortal flesh keep silent.

And it is an absolutely haunting melody. Great theological content.

It's one of the oldest hymns that there is. And they, the Trinity PCA hymnal, if you have the

Trinity hymnal, um, let all mortal flesh keep silent, goes way back hundreds of years in translation.

It is amazing. Yes. The green version, you got a green one. Where'd you get that? That's cool. But, uh, that's the question.

Just became best friends. We were already best friends actually. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Matthew, if you ever, if I ever get a chance to have you on our podcast,

I want that t -shirt, I want you to wear that t -shirt. You guys could discuss that. I'd be good. That'd be good.

Yeah. He's got a really cool concept because you watch the movie in 2025. There you go. You watch the movie.

Then you just dissect it with, you know, built upon the word of God. And it's just a fun concept,

I think. But, uh, Corey, did you have something I do? Um, it, mine is a toss up.

So, so I have a soft spot for, um, it's a wonderful life. I think it's a wonderful life.

It's a great story. I like, I like the message. Um, I, I just think it's,

I think it's a great story. Uh, but, but my other one would be nightmare before Christmas. And again, it's a total watch well take.

Um, I love a nightmare before Christmas because it basically shows, uh, the seed that fell on, you know, rocky soil kind of in plants and then doesn't last.

And he apostatizes back to being the pumpkin King, you know? So, I mean, he, he sees this beautiful thing that is

Christmas and he wants to take it. But when Jack takes Christmas, it's grotesque, you know?

I mean, he doesn't know how to make it beautiful because he's, he's again, to use Christian language, he's lost.

Right. So he, he just, he makes Christmas this really grotesque spectacle that is

Halloween, like wrapped in glitter and gold. And, um, and so, and then he just finally decides, you know what?

This isn't who I am. I was happier as the pumpkin King, and I'm going to leave this Christianity stuff to, to the people that actually do it.

So I'm, I'm really torn between those two films. Those are kind of my two favorites at this time of year. And then, um, what child is this is, is my favorite

Christmas song. Yeah. Good stuff. Andrew, you got anything for us? And then we'll go to Parker.

Oh, wait, that, that doesn't count. What'd you, which one did you say? Fiddler on the roof.

I think that's a great, Oh, wait, no. Yeah. I don't really do.

Uh, I mean, for folks who, like, I didn't grow up with Christmas, so I, I don't really have a favorite

Christmas movie. I mean, so. Parker, how about you?

So movie and him or Carol favorite one as we round out. Silent night is probably my favorite. Okay. My favorite

Christmas song. It's a great one. And then I think I've got to agree with Matthew. A Christmas vacation.

Christmas vacation. It's probably my very favorite. Okay. And J Chase Davis just jumped in. Uh, we were shifting gears to something a little less serious talking about our favorite

Christmas movie, uh, that you can throw out to the people there and then favorite Christmas, him or Carol.

You got one for us, Chase? Uh, sure. Yeah. I just watched, uh, you know, I grew up seeing it's a wonderful life on television all the time, but as a kid,

I don't think I ever watched the full thing. And then I watched the full thing with my family last year and I was like crying, man.

So good. It's so good. Yeah. It's great. Um, and then

I think come that long expected Jesus. Uh, I liked that him a lot. I like,

Oh, come on, come Emmanuel. Um, that's like for my whole life. That's been my favorite kind of Christmas him.

So that would be my answer. Are we allowed to like Mary? Did you know? No, are we not allowed to hate it?

I've said it on many a live stream. Are you not listening on Keith Foskey's show the other day?

That's why he made the joke. Very anti Mary. Did you know? For folks who want to go follow

Parker, uh, watch Wells one word. So if you go to look for, you know, it's watch well, one word, not two.

So you can find it. So, ma 'am. All right. So let's run this last 15 minutes out. We've been going strong since seven.

As I've always said, if anyone needs to jump off, you're more than welcome to, but we're down to our final six at one point, I think we had 10 or 11 on here, but, um,

Chase, uh, anything this year where you have stood on something, an opinion to where the leftists, the crazies, the feminist, even friends or family where you've had an opinion and it's put you on the

Island of misfit toys where they just went, I cannot get on board with that. And you said, well, it's the truth.

It's reality. It is what it is. Do you have anything like that? I know. And the reason why I invited each of everyone who's appeared on here tonight,

I've seen either on Twitter or Instagram or Facebook where you have gotten all kinds of pushback just for stating something that was true.

So that's what we all have in common here. And that's kind of why I wanted to have you guys on, but, um, I definitely know with you chase your, uh, your

Twitter X feed is a while. Yeah. You know, I'm, uh, I like to think it's not, it's fairly moderate.

I'm a, I'm a centrist really. I'm very tolerant and inclusive. Uh, no, I just have a lot of fun on there.

I, uh, I I've said something last week and apparently it was going, making the rounds on Reddit.

And that's when you know, you really hit a banger. And so, uh, it was basically like, uh, you should walk up when you meet a new guy, you should be assuming he's married, happily married to a woman with children, you know, that they have children together.

And so you should ask questions like, so how long have you and your wife been married? Like if I were to meet somebody on the show, so how long have you and your wife been married?

I don't know if you're married or not, but you should be assuming people are married. You should be kids. And man, people did not like that.

I was just kind of, I made it to Reddit, huh? Yeah. Yeah. People were, you know, Jesus would never assume anything about anyone.

Uh, you know, cause the whole point is you should assume the center, you should push, you should ask questions that promote instead of asking questions like, are you married?

Have y 'all chosen to have children? You know, are they in Christian school or public school? You should assume what you want to cultivate in society.

Uh, obviously I'm being silly. It's Twitter. This is not how I typically interact with people every day, but it is now.

It is now. Yeah. So now it's Twitter, but, but it's actually that you're bringing up a good point,

Chase. Like I do this with homeschool, unfortunately, and it really gets up. I go, how long have you been homeschooling? I just assume you homeschool.

Uh, even though I know you're sending your kids to a God forsaken Roman public school, uh, and I, you know, and we can have that discussion, but I think it's good to get in a mindset of assume

Christendom. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. What are we going to say, Andrew? Sorry. Well, I was going to say the answer to, you know, well,

Jesus wouldn't assume things. Of course not. He knows everything. That beard is scary.

Matthew, what do you think? Do you think we should be walking down the street assuming a Christendom for people and saying,

Hey, get on board with this. It's the best way. It's how the God designed the universe. Um, you know, as he was, uh, as Chase was talking about that,

I was thinking about it cause I had not, I wasn't up with that controversy. I didn't follow that particular tweet or, and I'm not on Reddit, but I do like the idea of assuming the good about people, even though of course we suspect the worst because of the sinful nature, but the good is marriage and the good is family.

And so it's actually seems to me just on first blush take here, a charitable principle of, uh, esteeming the other brother.

Well, that you would assume that that person is married rather than to assume that they're fornicating or, or living together.

So, um, I kind of like it. I was nodding. Yes. As he was describing his tweets. And I thought, yeah, that's kind of an interesting concept to just assume that the person, um, just out of kindness, you know,

Leviticus 19, 18, love your neighbor as yourself. I would want people to assume good things about me. And of course it's good, good to be married.

Good to be faithful to one woman who is your wife. Good to be child rearing in a godly way, catechizing your children.

So yeah, it seems like a, it seems like a fair principle to me. Yeah. And I, I don't know if this applies directly, but, uh, recently

I went to a, uh, a different gym. So I do jujitsu and I went to a different gym.

Um, and one of my pastors actually does jujitsu. And then another buddy from the church community does it as well.

And I went to their gym. I trained at a different gym and I got off the mat. We were taking a break and one of the guys, and I know who this guy is, but, uh,

I sat down next to him to take a break and we got talking and he was asking me about my family. He's asking me about my kids and my wife.

And then I returned the favor and I asked him, I said, you know, so, you know, what about your wife and your kids?

And then it was this, you know, no, I'm, I'm waiting to get married. And it was like putting everything off. And, and, uh, and so I just went into this whole monologue on how marriage is the greatest thing ever.

And having kids is the greatest thing ever. And, and you started to see his opinion of those things shift through the conversation.

And he was like, Oh man, you're right. Like I was, you know, one of the things that I brought up was like, you know, any job that you ever do, you're replaceable, they will, they will fire you or you will get laid off or you'll retire.

And they will replace that position with somebody new. And you're expendable, but in your family you are not.

And so we talked about legacy and building a legacy, you know, as a father and a husband and all of these different things and the effects that, you know, can radiate from that.

And, uh, by the end he was like, man, you're right. So I, I pray that, you know, I, I changed his opinion. But when

Chase was talking, you know, what was going through my head is also speaking highly of those things is important.

Yeah, no, absolutely. Uh, I hate it when I see like Christian brothers or something in the, in there to all my kids are this, or my wife did that or, or complaining.

And it's like, what, what are you talking about? Do you need to get your house in order then? Because, because I don't know of a better place than in my home with a loving wife, with loving children, uh, obedient children that are serving the

Lord. I mean, I, sometimes I've, you sit there and you go, Oh, there's people that don't, that not only don't can't experience this or don't experience it, but they put it off and they're seeking other things that are just ruining their life, putting them into a deep pit of depression.

And then also believing the lies of the secular world that says, don't go after it.

Don't have it. It's no good. It's a, it's a time waste. It's a money waste. And you go, wow, boy, did God design this reality a very particular way in his common grace through family and children?

Uh, I mean, I mean, it gives you this deep joy and believe me, I was in the world for a long time.

I shook my fist at God. I don't need you. Um, and there was nothing that could compare to that. And you try to tell a 19 year old, uh,

Greg that he would probably argue with you, but as a 43 year old Greg, you look back and you go, wow, God is good.

You know, you know, Greg, um, here's an application to the thoughts, maybe a bit of a corollary.

Um, instead of assuming the other person, which again, I said is probably fine. One thing that you can do is simply speak well of your own wife all the time.

And of course, you know, our, our wives have their, their idiosyncrasies and foibles and temptations and mistakes like anybody else would, um, because they're human.

But I find it so, so, um, so endearing when people talk positively of their wife publicly, when men speak publicly very well of their wives, because so often men are prone to cutting down their wives, just as many wives are prone to cutting down their husbands.

It's almost second nature to just kind of riff on your spouse and to critique them and maybe say why you're mad or why you can't believe that they did this or that.

But when I hear people speaking very lovingly and kindly of their spouse, I think it's such a good testimony for Christian marriage.

And I think that that will go just about as far as anything else will just speaking lovingly and positively of your own spouse.

I think to your in -laws, you know, and, and, you know,

I mean, they don't have to be perfect, but I mean, but saying, you know, Hey, you know, cause

I think Matthew's onto something, you know, you turn on any show from family guy to, you know, on, you mentioned the list, you know, it's all of them are, you know, my spouse is an idiot, her family or his family, depending on which spouse is, is, you know, their family's terrible.

I can't stand them. Um, and, and yeah, I, I agree. I think if you just say, man, I got the greatest in -laws in the world, you know, they treat me like I was their son and not their son -in -law, you know, and, and my wife is,

I mean, she's stopped in a couple of times in this two hour podcast and said, sweetie, you need anything? Can I bring you a drink? Can I bring you a snack?

I mean, I got, I got an awesome spouse. My kids have popped in and kissed me two or three times since we've been online.

And I mean, my goodness, I'm the most blessed guy in the world and I know each of you feel that way. And that's the coolest thing about it.

I heard a old country preacher say once blaming your wife or cutting down or blaming your spouse or cutting down your spouse is like turning to them and saying, there's a hole in your side of the boat.

He goes, you guys are on the same boat together. I like that. Matthew said a bit and say, you know, you'll never hear me ever make my bride a butt of a joke.

Okay. You also very rarely hear me refer to her as my wife. She's my bride because I still want that honeymoon type mindset.

But the reality is what does my marriage to my bride represent? It represents

Christ and the church. Would I want Christ taking that relationship and making the church the butt of a joke, making light of that?

Do I want to take my marriage, which represents the imagery of Christ in the church and make light of that just so that I could feel better about myself and make myself look better in the eyes of others?

Absolutely not. I'm never going to belittle my bride ever because what it represents, and I think far too many

Christians have a low view of what marriage represents in the ministry of God, and we have too high view of what we think marriage should be.

But our marriage is a representation, or as Paul says, a mystery of Christ's relationship to the church, and that's not something to be belittled.

Yeah. And I think in terms of culture building as well, like when I stopped doing that, making my wife the butt of the joke, you know, just as a husband,

I guess the outcome of that is safety. She feels safe, so she'll be willing to do more things and not feel like, oh, well, on the back end of this,

I'm going to get made fun of, or this is going to be a joke later down the road, for whatever that may be.

So if you're doing that and you're hearing this, I would highly, highly recommend stop doing that because nothing but good things came from my experience.

Look, I've had, I mean, wherever I go, wherever I'm traveling, people will always know because when

I leave, I go preaching somewhere and I'm heading home, I'm almost always posting, I can't wait to see my bride.

Yeah. And it's the thing where so many people come up to me, and one, they want to know why I refer to her as my bride and not my wife.

Okay. But the second thing is people always are like, you know, that's so refreshing to see that I am excited to get home and be with my bride.

Yeah. I have a high view of her. And I think that that's rare.

How many people do you, maybe asking this question is probably right. No, you're right. It shouldn't be rare.

It shouldn't be rare, but the genuine affection that you have for your spouse, how many marriages in the

United States maybe, or maybe in the world actually, like would prefer, like how many husbands would prefer to stay in with their wife on a

Friday night rather than go hang out with the guys? No, you're right. I think it's, I mean, this is a self -selecting group here on this live stream, but I think that goes hand in hand with something

I got pushed back with this year too, of just stating, talking about submissiveness of a wife, right?

We live in a feminist culture where if you say a wife submits, you automatically go, oh, you're misogynist, you rule with an iron fist.

And look, and I've seen that done incorrectly within a marriage, but from friends and family. But my point is, is when you have a husband that lays down his life to his wife, like Christ laid down his life, meaning giving up his self doesn't necessarily mean

I'll, you know, I'll jump in front of a bullet for which you could. And most men think that's what that means.

It means giving up your own desires, yourself, your time, your selfishness, right? Your narcissism. And then you have a wife that submits to the godly head of man.

Boy, when both of those are clicking, that is such a good godly. Uh, it's, it's so aligned perfectly.

It's easy. Marriage is easy. Marriage becomes easy and people go, no, no, you're crazy. And you're like, no, it's, it's man.

My wife submits. I have to submit to Christ. She knows that I fear God. She, she then submits to me.

And then it's like this weird dichotomy. I say weird, but it's this biblical dichotomy where then everything starts to work out weird in relation to the world in the context of the secular world.

But then like Chase was saying, he puts something out there about assuming someone's married or you put something out there about a husband, loving their wife and a wife submitting.

It's like, dude, the, the left and the secular and the pagans, they go nuts and they go crazy.

And even friends and family sometimes too. Uh, not that I wanted to get into, um, submitting with five minutes left in the live stream.

We could probably go for a long time on that. But Chase, did you have anything else? I know you're just on for a few minutes.

We've got a few minutes left here. We're going to give shout outs to everyone where they can be followed at tall, the, uh, for all the, uh, uh, uh, uh, listeners and viewers.

But did you have anything else for us, Chase, before we wrap up? Yeah, I would just say, even riffing off that, you know, one of the things

I try to train people in my church on is, um, you know, they're used to going into a workplace, a secular workplace on campus or whatever it may be.

And just to me, no one else is a Christian. No one else wants to go to church. And it's the same principle evangelistically.

Easy question is, so what did you learn at church on Sunday to somebody that you may or may not be interested in church?

Maybe they just went for the first time. Maybe they've never gone. And then they say, oh, I didn't go to church. Oh, you should. It's the highest good for your soul.

You know, that's corny to say, but just say something to the effect of, oh yeah, you know, you're always welcome to come to mind. We'd love to have you, but just assume you're not.

I think most people think they use the quip, you know, you make an ass out of you and me. And my dad used that on me one time.

It was pretty clever of him, but, um, you know, you don't want to do that, but like you can, it's, it's fair to just like assume the best of people.

They should, people should want to go to church that live in the Christian life is the most normal way. God's ways are the most normal way to live. The way the world is crazy.

It's insane. And I think most of us have seen that at this point, but, uh, but yeah, just inviting people to church, use it as an evangelistic tool.

Uh, you want the best for your neighbor. You want the best for, for those around you. And it's a great way to share the gospel, talk about Jesus and that kind of thing.

I love it. All right, guys, we're going to wrap this up here. I want to give a big, thank you. And a big shout out before we go around and you guys tell everyone where they can follow you and find you and where your podcast is at.

I want to thank Parker for coming in studio tonight. Watch well podcast. Thanks for having so cool for you to be down here. We live about 40 minutes apart.

So it's, it's cool when I can come down there, you can come up here and, uh, guys, make sure you go check out watch.

Well, uh, he was the co -host tonight. It's a great concept of a podcast, watch a movie and then talk about it, but all within a worldview.

Um, man, it was just awesome. So thanks for being here, but let's start with Corey and then we'll go around the horn.

Uh, shout out your socials, tell people where they can find your podcast, name of it, all that good stuff. I'm going to quickly shout out to my good friend, uh,

Jacob glass. He's a fellow eschatology matters, a contributor, um, like with myself and I see him in the comments.

So, Hey Jacob. Um, but, but, uh, so I contribute on eschatology matters. I also have a channel of my own called civically minded.

It's weird spelled. So see it there on screen. Um, you can find me at civically minded. Um, I have civically minded .com.

You can find me on any of the socials at civically minded and, uh, I'd love to interact with any of you.

So come check me out. Awesome. Chase, how about you throw them out there for people? Tell them what you're up to. Yeah, you can follow me on Twitter at JJ Davis.

I host a podcast called foolproof theology. That's F U L L proof theology, uh, anywhere podcasts are found.

It's also on YouTube, uh, post weekly. They're having conversations with people I'm interested in talking to.

And so, um, so yeah, you can find me there and follow me on Instagram, all that kind of good stuff. Awesome.

Cody, my man, let them know what's happening. Yes, sir. So go buy stuff for your guitar at Westminster effects .com

church history themed guitar effects and listen to the Westminster effects doxology podcast.

Uh, also on YouTube, follow Westminster effects on all the socials. And I'm on X at Cody fields, eight, six, four.

And tell them my favorite pedal, the Joel Osteen one. What is it called? Oh, yeah, it's called the Osteen distortion. And, uh, it goes about semi -viral once a month.

Here we go. Hold on. Hold on. Here we go. I just, I'm very careful about saying who wouldn't, wouldn't go to heaven.

I just think that only God can judge a person's heart. I don't know. Larry, Larry, he was on Larry King saying that. I don't know who judges heart.

Okay. He knows about it by the way. And he knows, yeah. Didn't you get a cease and desist from him?

No, I didn't. Or was that someone else? I'm up to three cease and desist letters from other companies, uh, for accidental trademark infringement.

Uh, but no, it's, he knows about it through a couple of his staff members at this point. So he's like attorneys.

Run it through legal. I am legal. Just pretty pedals, baby. All right. And the law. All right,

Andrew, tell us, tell us what you're about, man, where they can find you. Well, first off, thanks for hosting this, uh, both

Greg and Parker. You guys got some great podcasts, dead men walking podcast and watch well podcast. Check them out.

Uh, I am with striving for eternity as a ministry. If you want to get me or one of our other speakers to come to your church for a weekend, do weekend seminar, teach you about how to interpret the

Bible, evangelism, apologetics, social justice, a whole lot of topics. Just go to striving for eternity .org.

If you want to check out my podcasts, my two main ones I do, I have five, but the two of that I do mainly is

Andrew rap reports, rap report to search for rap report with two Ps. So that is a one hour, roughly an hour a week.

Um, basically dealing with biblical interpretations applications for the Christian life. And then on Thursday nights, eight to 10 time, uh,

I do a stream called apologetics live. Anyone can come in, ask any question they have.

I tell people I can answer every question you have about God in the Bible. Just remember,

I don't know is a perfectly good answer. So, uh, but no, it's, it's a great show.

We, we teach apologetics. We show how to do it. We explain why we're doing what we do. Uh, and a lot of times we get people that come in debating me where I didn't know

I had a debate that night. It's a lot of fun. Awesome. And thanks for being here, Andrew Parker. Uh, yeah, the watch will podcast.

Uh, thanks Andrew. It's one word watch. Well, um, the watch well podcast we're on YouTube, uh, ex formerly known as Twitter.

Um, tick tock now, which I hate, but we're on the, we're on the tick tock. We're on the tick tock. We're on the tick tock machine.

And, uh, real quick, I just want to, um, shout out Andrew again, his, uh, apologetics live. I watched, it is incredible what you're able to do and you handle your guests with so much grace and kindness and, and, uh, it's just really, really, uh, beneficial to watch.

So I would recommend everybody out there to go watch that. Yeah. There's been a few in there where they come in and they just want to fight and Andrew's got to settle them down a little bit.

You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. But the one that I saw was really good, but you know, once in a while, it's just really good.

And then, um, yeah, I'm thankful for you having me. Let me, um, it's great meeting, um, a lot of you guys out there.

So some of the guys that have left, I know these, you know, three knucklehood knuckleheads on the, um, my right -hand side of the screen here, but, uh, but, but yeah, chase

Davis is it's good to meet you, buddy. Um, thanks for coming. And, uh, yeah. Oh yeah. You got to get on that chase

Davis full, full proof theology. That's good stuff. Yeah. I'll check it out. All right, guys. Well, thanks for sticking with us for so long.

Uh, man, over two hours, we had a couple thousand people jump on, uh, lots of guests. I think we had 12 different guests through the two hours.

I really appreciate it. I want to wish you guys all a Merry Christmas. Um, and remember, you can find out more about us at dmwpodcast .com.

You can check out the merch store. Why don't you go pick yourself up a little wine. I'm dying. I'm Romans nine a month.

You know, those are on sale right now. I'm wearing your shirt by the way.

I didn't even see it. Which one is it? Which one is it? It's, it's the, uh, theologians one. Oh yeah.

Calvin. Yeah. Nice. I love it. Get you one of those too. There you go. Um, Cody's my, uh, male model for the night.

Awesome. Uh, but guys, yeah, dmwpodcast .com. Remember the chief and demand is to glorify

God and enjoy him forever. God bless. Thanks guys. Appreciate it. See you guys.